TromboneChat

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:20 am**

good, first thing, sorry for my English that is not very good. I come to tell you a problem that has been happening to me, and that is when I play, the upper part of my lips is often very marked, this causes me little resistance and dont permit me to play the high register well.
I think it could be caused because my mouthpiece is big (schilke 52)and my lips are no ready for that mouthpiece. would you recommend me to try a little smaller one like 51 5g or D5.1? or do you think that the problem is because I push the mouthpiece too much? Its could also be both.
Thanks

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:29 am**

Marking of the lips by either color or indentation is a sure sign of too much pressure. You should only use enough pressure to prevent air from leaking out between your lips and the mouthpiece. To go from a lower note to a higher note think the syllable "EEEE" as this will tighten the corners of your lips. You should also work on pinching your lips together. Another drill you can do is place a large coin betwen your lips and raise the end farthest from your face upward by pinching your lips. Best wishes!

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:34 am**

Heavy marks on your upper lip is probably the cause of too much pressure. It can happen when playing loud, or playing for a long time. You might want to look for a mouthpiece with a wider rim, to distribute the pressure over more area. Back off on the pressure if you can. I don't think the size of mouthpiece will cause those marks, but the narrow rim or a very rounded rim might. A rim with a very sharp inner edge might also do the same. But before you change your mouthpiece, I'd see if you can back off the pressure.

I have a semi-permanent mark on my upper lip, a little off-center. I don't play as much as I used to play, but the mark remains. It's not an unheard of thing to see that ring even if you're playing correctly.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:46 pm**

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:34 am Heavy marks on your upper lip is probably the cause of too much pressure. It can happen when playing loud, or playing for a long time. You might want to look for a mouthpiece with a wider rim, to distribute the pressure over more area. Back off on the pressure if you can. I don't think the size of mouthpiece will cause those marks, but the narrow rim or a very rounded rim might. A rim with a very sharp inner edge might also do the same. But before you change your mouthpiece, I'd see if you can back off the pressure.

I have a semi-permanent mark on my upper lip, a little off-center. I don't play as much as I used to play, but the mark remains. It's not an unheard of thing to see that ring even if you're playing correctly.

Thanks for the reply, only one question, what mouthpieces do you recommend with a wider rim?

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:53 pm**

I would be able to help you if I can see you play. Do you use Skype, or can you post a video?

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:33 pm**

Talk to Doug.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:09 pm**

Marks on your lip aren't necessarily a bad thing - most players get a ring around their lips for a while after they are done playing, and many pros have permanent marks on their face from decades of playing. Pain and fatigue are problems though. So is limited range.

I myself have a vey thin permanent white ring on my upper lip, and a track mark, like a "V", on my lower lip caused by 20 years of vibrato and 15 years of lip trills. And that's on the low end of the scale compared to many here, time wise.

Posted: **Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:46 pm**

If possible talk and do a Skype session with Doug. He will help you find out if you are using too much pressure. He is the THE expert in the field. Good luck!

Posted: **Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:21 am**

Excess pressure is a situation that most brass players spend most of their lives fighting. Anything you can do to successfully overcome this tendency will produce positive results over time. Good habits are sometimes hard to develop and maintain, but the results are worth the effort.

Posted: **Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:53 am**

Doubler wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:21 am Excess pressure is a situation that most brass players spend most of their lives fighting.

That is because they never figure out that pressure isn't the problem.
Excess pressure is a symptom of something else. Until you fix that "something else" you'll keep fighting a symptom and never fix the problem.

Posted: **Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:04 am**

I used to play a schilke 52. It felt good at first, but then I realized it's not a good mouthpiece. A lot of work for not a very good sound.

Posted: **Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:02 pm**

Quote Doug Elliott..."That is because they never figure out that pressure isn't the problem.
Excess pressure is a symptom of something else. Until you fix that "something else" you'll keep fighting a symptom and never fix the problem."

Thank you Doug. Excellent comment!
M

Posted: **Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:23 pm**

Yeah, Doug gets to the root of the issue with that quote.

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:05 pm**

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:53 am
Doubler wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:21 am Excess pressure is a situation that most brass players spend most of their lives fighting.
That is because they never figure out that pressure isn't the problem.
Excess pressure is a symptom of something else. Until you fix that "something else" you'll keep fighting a symptom and never fix the problem.

Hi Doug...I found this older post on lip pressure and am intrigued by your answer. I am a player who has always had a red mark on my lips regardless of whether I play low or high notes. Before I go into too much detail (because I'm not sure if you see this post) what sort of 'something else' could be causing a problem? eg. incorrectly holding the trombone? etc.

I'm looking forward to hearing back from you so I can solve my problem and figure out if I really am using excessive pressure or if it's something else.

Thank you!

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:54 pm**

There are several mechanical issues that I test and diagnose in lessons... Impossible without seeing you play.
I do Skype lessons.

Some people get a red ring even without much pressure.

Posted: **Sun Oct 22, 2023 5:48 am**

I never get tired nowdays even if I play heavy trombone parts, but I get a mark (ring) on my upper lip. When I was young a few hours of playing made my lips to swell after, and that made it necessary to warm down after a session too, not just to warm up. Today I never warm down and my warmup is just a couple of minutes. What's changed is I'm a lot better player with much better emboushure today.

The mark is not the problem, but it could be a symptom of a problem.

/Tom

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:11 pm**

ChicaBone wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:05 pm
Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:53 am
That is because they never figure out that pressure isn't the problem.
Excess pressure is a symptom of something else. Until you fix that "something else" you'll keep fighting a symptom and never fix the problem.
Hi Doug...I found this older post on lip pressure and am intrigued by your answer. I am a player who has always had a red mark on my lips regardless of whether I play low or high notes. Before I go into too much detail (because I'm not sure if you see this post) what sort of 'something else' could be causing a problem? eg. incorrectly holding the trombone? etc.

I'm looking forward to hearing back from you so I can solve my problem and figure out if I really am using excessive pressure or if it's something else.

Thank you!

Thanks for digging this up! And thanks Doug for the food for thought
EZ

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2023 1:50 pm**

DOUG! DOUG! DOUG! DOUG! DOUG!

I have a boatload of troubles. He has helped me more than most any three teachers combined.

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