TromboneChat

The metal is so dang hard, the sound is so focused. Now, I have the stainless model, to my ears, the SS has more of a solo characteristic sound to it. It took a couple of tries to buzz on the Titanium, I feel as if it is more of an very large ensemble sound, not unlike Mahler type Symphonies. I'm glad I've made the purchase.

Someone else please chime in that has had an experience with these mouthpieces.

Nor' Easter Satin Finish on Both.

Wish I had an ensemble to test these money pits in, that bad-boy was not cheap......Got to pay to play, I suppose! Good quality, Cheap, dependable...Choose 2 that applies. Don't know how to post pics, yet.

Whuh?

Are you discussing a Giddings mouthpiece?

Harder metals respond differently than softer ones. I'm having a real trip comparing a Symington brass 1 1/2 to a Zirconium 1 1/2. Very similar but also very different.

I had great success with an AR resonance in bronze. It has become my go to piece because of how easy it is to match others sounds.

I have a titanium and steel chinook that I had threaded for Elliott LB rims. It's hard to parse out the difference between the materials because I don't have a brass Chinook as well! That said, I find that the steel projects much better than the titanium, though the latter can obviously take an endless amount of air perhaps at least partially as a result. I haven't tried them in awhile and at the time I was just really getting into bass so perhaps my observations would be different now.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:42 pm Are you discussing a Giddings mouthpiece?

I am.

Matt K wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:19 am I have a titanium and steel chinook that I had threaded for Elliott LB rims. It's hard to parse out the difference between the materials because I don't have a brass Chinook as well! That said, I find that the steel projects much better than the titanium, though the latter can obviously take an endless amount of air perhaps at least partially as a result. I haven't tried them in awhile and at the time I was just really getting into bass so perhaps my observations would be different now.

From my living room is my control as far as sound is concern, so I would actually had to get into an auditorium to make a final synopsis.

The Titanium, is best I can tell, from the feel, is like a really heavy mouthpiece without the weight. All of the sympathetic vibrations are focused in the lead pipe. This material is not for the faint of heart, you really have to have your basics together to play on this type of material. In other words, you would really need to blow through mouthpiece and phrases or this type of material gets harmful to the soft flesh. So, what I'm gonna do is warmup on the Titanium and perform solo on the Stainless, if sound dictates. Ensemble playing versus Solo work would be a definite conclusion.

"The NorEaster has a large inside rim diameter, with a comfortable rim, very deep cup, and large throat. Designed for playing in large ensembles where a massive sound is needed. Not for the faint of heart, or the beginning student." This really applies, even more so, to the harder material.

These type of experiments seem to conclude better if the mouthpiece maker is the same.

If you have trouble with a focused sound this material seems to be best bang for your buck, instead of buying a new bell, for example. Extremely hard to overblow, really have to improve the chops to play on this material. Soooo, seems to make the Stainless even easier to play on. I'm really glad this mouthpiece maker exists. Brings back memories from when my spouse and I rented our first house together

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:00 am Harder metals respond differently than softer ones. I'm having a real trip comparing a Symington brass 1 1/2 to a Zirconium 1 1/2. Very similar but also very different.

So is one metal harder than the other? Please explain!!!!

Matt K wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:19 am I have a titanium and steel chinook that I had threaded for Elliott LB rims. It's hard to parse out the difference between the materials because I don't have a brass Chinook as well! That said, I find that the steel projects much better than the titanium, though the latter can obviously take an endless amount of air perhaps at least partially as a result. I haven't tried them in awhile and at the time I was just really getting into bass so perhaps my observations would be different now.

That is what my conclusion was.

That was an expensive trial of mouthpieces you did. The Titanium was 476 dollars with the Dragon's Breath, I can't imagine how much a threaded one would cost.

Also I noticed that the insignia was engraved deeply as apposed to laser etched on the surface.

I have always been interested in the artistry that goes in to designing mouthpieces, there are literally thousands of designs and options. I've always thought that the mouthpieces was as important as the trombone, itself. I've always sound myself on most trombones, no so with the variety mouthpieces.

Reynold Schilke did a great write up on the mouthpiece, makes for a good read.

Certainly wasn't cheap! I got all of them used though, which helped precipitously. Osmun does threading of titanium & steel; at the time the price was quite reasonable. (Might still be, I think I did that experiment 3 years ago).

Would be interesting to see the dragon's breath thing. Probably changes the way it plays too though so I'd have to repeat

The choice of metals now available for mouthpieces is just that... choice.
You gain in some areas and lose in others. I have yet to try any metal that is superior in most aspects. Titanium for me is quite close to plastic in most areas except price. Stainless steel has a distinct character as does copper, zirconium and good old brass. It's good to have choice.

Chris

Unobtanium mouthpiece FTW!

trombonedemon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:47 am

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:00 am Harder metals respond differently than softer ones. I'm having a real trip comparing a Symington brass 1 1/2 to a Zirconium 1 1/2. Very similar but also very different.

So is one metal harder than the other? Please explain!!!!

Yeah, titanium has a lower density and weight than high grade steel. The hardness is comparable... but between high grade titanium and high grade steel, titanium is softer.

Which is why Titanium seems like it can take unlimited air but still be lightweight. The metal responds differently.

Steel, on the other hand... is heavier, higher density and harder than titanium or brass. Which might explain why it has more core to the sound ect. The mumbo jumbo on the Giddings website does have some truth to it.

Zr, is very similar to titanium but much denser. So it sort of plays like a cross between titanium and steel. High density, high hardness but lightweight. Not sure how I feel about Zr yet...

Zirconium seems for me to be warmer at low dynamics but brighter at high dynamics with overall a slight dullness compared to brass. Could be qualities that will appeal to some... and they will never need plating.

Chris

I have found that for me, stainless steel and titanium mouthpieces lose their focus at softer volume levels. They certainly worked well at mf and above. But the lack of focus issue takes them off then useable list for me. Others I know have the same opinion, and have gone back to traditional mouthpieces for their personal best sound.

ssking2b wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:42 am I have found that for me, stainless steel and titanium mouthpieces lose their focus at softer volume levels. They certainly worked well at mf and above. But the lack of focus issue takes them off then useable list for me. Others I know have the same opinion, and have gone back to traditional mouthpieces for their personal best sound.

Then you should probably try bronze. I find the focus on them quite spectacular, particularly at softer volumes.

I've always wanted to try a mouthpiece design that I liked in steel or titanium. All of Giddings are strange in some way or another. I have two right now, a Sanders and NY-S, and though they are easy to play, the sound is just miles away from what I want to hear in every regard.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:15 am I've always wanted to try a mouthpiece design that I liked in steel or titanium. All of Giddings are strange in some way or another. I have two right now, a Sanders and NY-S, and though they are easy to play, the sound is just miles away from what I want to hear in every regard.

So, in your experience, "titanium for the fail!"?

How can you be sure it isn't the weird material used rather than the design?

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:31 am How can you be sure it isn't the weird material used rather than the design?

How can you be sure it isn't the design rather than the weird material used?

True! The Giddings pieces use both weird designs and weird materials.

ssking2b wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:42 am I have found that for me, stainless steel and titanium mouthpieces lose their focus at softer volume levels. They certainly worked well at mf and above. But the lack of focus issue takes them off then useable list for me. Others I know have the same opinion, and have gone back to traditional mouthpieces for their personal best sound.

I am not sure if that was my experience or not. I know that I need to work on soft playing everyday, but I am not sure if that is due to just my own personal needs or mouthpiece choice. I sound very good on stainless steel.

GBP wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:44 am

ssking2b wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:42 am I have found that for me, stainless steel and titanium mouthpieces lose their focus at softer volume levels. They certainly worked well at mf and above. But the lack of focus issue takes them off then useable list for me. Others I know have the same opinion, and have gone back to traditional mouthpieces for their personal best sound.

I am not sure if that was my experience or not. I know that I need to work on soft playing everyday, but I am not sure if that is due to just my own personal needs or mouthpiece choice. I sound very good on stainless steel.

It's hard, if not impossible, to ascertain what percentage of a sound is generated due to the design and it's interaction with the horn vs. the material of the mouthpiece in and of itself. I would suspect that if you had a brass piece designed like your steel piece - and I say this because Giddings are the most popular steel pieces - that you would have similar problems. The throat tends to be very large on his pieces. Almost like the Monette concept on trumept mouthpieces though most of the Giddings designs are the same length as traditional mouthpieces. Although not all... I want to say the Dave Sanders(?) perhaps is a good 1/4" longer than a traditional mouthpiece. Maybe more.

My Bob Sanders is the same length as my 93D.

The throat on my NYO is .312, which is similar to other large pieces. I think the issue with G&W pieces could be the insertion depth; they don’t seem to sit as low into the leadpipe as other mouthpieces I own. I am going to send one back and have the shank shaved and see what happens.

This is a fun debate. Been wanting to try titanium for a long time. You all may not realize but this type of debate is what is keeping the brass musician industry alive, otherwise people wouldn't buy anymore if they found something that was considered the best and never change. I digress.

These titanium material, which in fact, was compared to an identical mouthpiece of Stainless, is a BEAST. Very specific sound. Its almost unforgiving when it comes to embouchure movement. For me the sound changes and has to be refocused if the embouchure moves, that is because of my chops adjusting. Its gonna take plenty of practice, but when I warm of to the material (muscle wise), the sound is GLORIOUS. Its all about the chops.

I absolute love the backbore in the Nor Easter. Again, I digress.

Its almost night and day between the sympathetic vibrations in the Stainless. Its way easier to play. This was not originally a thread to advertise a mouthpiece maker, more for trial for different materials. Again if your a great trombonist you can buzz on most of these guys mouthpieces, within reason. Again its all about the chops.

Please - I'm playing on a marcinkiewicz 106. The NorEaster is small compared to it. And the 106 has zero focus issues for me at any volume level. But if steel or titanium works for you, that's ok. It just doesn't give me what I want, and the Marc 106 does

ssking2b wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:06 am Please - I'm playing on a marcinkiewicz 106. The NorEaster is small compared to it. And the 106 has zero focus issues for me at any volume level. But if steel or titanium works for you, that's ok. It just doesn't give me what I want, and the Marc 106 does

I'm not sure what you are getting at. But, great for ya'. Marcinkiewicz has that listed as a Contra Bass trombone mouthpiece. 106

Marc. 106 (Inside cup 1.670 in. Rim Diameter 1.184 in. Cupdepth 1.384 in. Backbore 0.316 in.

Length 3.500 in).

NorEaster (Rim diameter 1.144 Backbore 0.319 Cupdepth 1.345 Rim Width 0.235)

The thread was about the difference between the three metals, brass, aluminum, and titanium. I've researched this website and found nothing substantial about the subject. Figured the website could use the research since very few have bought the mouthpiece.

Now, as far as the focus, the softer metals are always gonna take less effort to vibrate. Just b/c something does not work now does not mean its not gonna work later.

Tis cool though. The Titanium comparative is like having a lots of weight on the backbore and cup,but with extreme lightness of the metal. The extreme hardness of the metal is something to be desired. You gotta build the chops for this metal.

To practice with this mouthpiece, I would have to take the Christian Lindbergh approach, 5 minutes of playing than rest.

Are you playing lead on your website or Bass trombone? Solid sound, by the way!!!!!

Thank for the complement! I really feel if it works for you, then that's the ticket. I am playing lead on all those cuts in my web site.

My bass trombone work can be heard on BONE HAPPY by the Mike Treni Big Band (and any of his other videos and recordings except the Christmas stuff), and virtually all the youtube, etc, music by Danny Davis and the Nashville Brass...here's one example


I'm happy to say I've been in this business a long time, and an still working, and lear!Ming and improving every day!

LEARNING! Spell check gets me again!

ssking2b wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:44 am LEARNING! Spell check gets me again!

That trombone section is incredibly in tune, even more so than these college jazz bands Ive been hearing on Youtube. I would love to hear some harder materia from that sectionl, that soloist in the first song is tasteful, reminds of Carl Fontana. Thanx for the down load,

I figured I'd add my titanium in to the mix here. First AR Resonance titanium mouthpiece, exactly same one i have in phosphorus bronze, so I'm very eager to compare them.

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 3:56 am I figured I'd add my titanium in to the mix here. First AR Resonance titanium mouthpiece, exactly same one i have in phosphorus bronze, so I'm very eager to compare them.

Very eager to hear about the differences! I'm a big fan of Antonios mouthpieces. Just ordered one for my large bore tenor.

cozzagiorgi wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:44 am

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 3:56 am I figured I'd add my titanium in to the mix here. First AR Resonance titanium mouthpiece, exactly same one i have in phosphorus bronze, so I'm very eager to compare them.

Very eager to hear about the differences! I'm a big fan of Antonios mouthpieces. Just ordered one for my large bore tenor.

Yeah I'm stoked. I love my current one, but I'm so curious about titanium. Also the idea of never needing plating is very appealing.

Well, it's here, and it's a thing of beauty. To break it down quickly, compared to the bronze, its warmer played quietly, and brighter at louder dynamics, albeit only marginally on both. The real difference is how it articulates, noticeably more delicate, and rounder. Playing legato is far easier to do with the titanium vs bronze, where everything is more pointed in general. If i was primarily a big band player, I'd want the bronze, where as for an all around go to, I like the titanium better. Certainly a case could be make for both, and I would say they compliment each other quite well. For players with a bigger mouthpiece budget, it would be rational to own both for sure.

Here is the one with dragons breathe

And stainless steel

I finally got in an ensemble, a Wind Ensemble and came to a final conclusion and synopsis to the Stainless Steel.

1. Stainless was so much more easier to play, night and day. The metal vibrates so much more than the titanium.

2. The titanium puts all of that energy into the leadpipe and so on and so forth. The metal rewards you with great FOCUSED sound, long as if you have good trombone habits.

3. I was going to use the Stainless but most of the parts seem to have a lead bass trombone sound, so I used the titanium and that mouthpiece pierces through a large ensemble. There was no way around it if I was going to play with a full tone and or sound with the titanium.

4. The stainless is a great ensemble mouthpiece metal and the titanium is an awesome metal for soloing. I know ground breaking.