TromboneChat

Along the lines of FC’s well-known comment about changing every couple of weeks, I’d been playing my Bach 5G for a few months and then changed back to a DE 102 setup. Last weekend, I was enjoying playing a Schilke 51.

No particular benefits or advantages; just the pleasure of a slightly different experience.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:59 am No particular benefits or advantages; just the pleasure of a slightly different experience.

Don Harwood I heard changed mouthpieces even in concert b

I change quite a bit, though I keep it to basically to rim sizes: XT104N and LB114. I'll change pieces in the same gig sometimes; for example, on most of my bass stuff I'll use an LB114/J/J8 but if I have a lot of pedals I'll switch out to an L/L8. If we have a swing dance set or something like that, I'll switch to an I/I8. Or maybe even an EUPH104N/K/K8 or XT104N/G/G8. No point in using something that deep for charts that don't go below the staff!

Matt K wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:21 pm XT104N and LB114. ... on most of my bass stuff I'll use an LB114/J/J8 but if I have a lot of pedals I'll switch out to an L/L8. If we have a swing dance set or something like that, I'll switch to an I/I8. Or maybe even an EUPH104N/K/K8 or XT104N/G/G8.

Am I the only TromboneChat member to whom this is all Greek?

I guess I should start learning to decode the Elliott cipher. Instead I'm stuck with dealing with the confusing cryptography of the other manufacturers' mouthpiece naming / numbering systems!

It's not easy to decipher.

At least Doug tends to have a consistent nomenclature, and equivalents are shown on his Web site.

Doug has a number of mouthpiece "series": Small Tenor (ST), Medium Tenor (MT), Large Tenor (LT), eXtreme Tenor (XT), Small Bass (SB), Medium Bass (MB), Large Bass (LB), Euphonium (EU), Tuba (TU), and probably a few more. Back in the Bad Old Days we only had ST, LT, SB, and LB. These series define the diameter where the rim meets the cup. In fact, I've put an MT rim on a LT cup and except for the fact that there is a "step" where the rim meets the cup, it all fits together.

Doug has specified his rims based on inside diameter measured in hundredths of an inch. For example, I use a 102 rim, which is 1.02" in diameter. To calibrate, a 6.5AL is approximately 100 and my 102 is like a Bach 4. You can get variations on the rims: N is narrow, W is wide.

Cups range from A to P. Throughout the different Series, identical letters have identical depths. So an A cup is WAY too shallow for a tuba, and a P cup is WAY too deep for a small tenor. I find an E cup is nice for small tenors and I use a G cup on my symphonic tenor. I also use an L cup on my bass (comparable to a Yeo).

Finally we have shanks/backbores. There are shanks designed for standard receivers: 2, 3, and 4 (small to large) and large bore receivers: 7, 8, 9, 10 (small to large). Each shank has a letter to mate up properly with a cup. Small cups have longer shanks and large cups have shorter shanks so the overall length of the mouthpiece remains constant. FWIW, I like an E cup and E2 shank on my Holton Stratodyne and an E cup and E4 shank on my Bach 36.

Hope this helps a little.

Not me. I usually find a mouthpiece that works with a particular trombone and then I don't like switching because it seems like it throws my intonation off. That isn't to say that I haven't built up a collection over the years. Sometimes I throw a different one on to mess around with but usually I go back to what I had before but that's just me.

Yes, I use different mouthpiece sizes for each instrument, and for some instruments I have two mouthpieces I use regularly (sometimes both in the same concert, although usually with a significant difference, not two similar mouthpieces with only slight variations (which I also tried more recently but I feel it's a bit too easy to be confused with intonation when your face can't tell which mouthpiece you're playing).

I haven't played modern trombones in a while, but for example when I did, I used two mouthpieces on bass, one 1.5G-sized, and the other 5G-ish with an extra deep cup (basically as deep as the 1.5G-ish piece) and extra open throat. The smaller one was for when i wanted a lighter, more compact sound, mostly for very early orchestral rep and/or not originally written for a bass and that doesn't go below the staff. Also blended so much better when playing lots of unison with the tenors in the mid-high range (Tannhauser ouverture!). It felt like a very similar difference in sound as switching to a smaller bass, but logistically easier since it only involves carrying an extra mouthpiece rather than extra horn or bell.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:19 pm

Matt K wrote: ↑Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:21 pm XT104N and LB114. ... on most of my bass stuff I'll use an LB114/J/J8 but if I have a lot of pedals I'll switch out to an L/L8. If we have a swing dance set or something like that, I'll switch to an I/I8. Or maybe even an EUPH104N/K/K8 or XT104N/G/G8.

Am I the only TromboneChat member to whom this is all Greek?

I guess I should start learning to decode the Elliott cipher. Instead I'm stuck with dealing with the confusing cryptography of the other manufacturers' mouthpiece naming / numbering systems!

It's a little cryptic until you hold one in your hands. Bruce did a good job explaining but just the short is that you have three components: Rim, Cup, and Shank and they're usually specified in that order.

It's good to have an ensemble mouthpiece, and a small ensemble or solo mouthpiece depending on the playing you do.

A mouthpiece that is helpful for 2nd trombone parts in a big orchestra is not what you'll probably want when you're trying to play, say, the T-Bone concerto from top to bottom.

Only switch mouthpieces when I switch horns. I use an Olds 3 on my Olds Recording and a Wedge 6.75 on my King 3BF+. Use the Wedge when I get the King 2B valve trombone out for a little light relief ….

If we look in my box its obvious I have tried many, its about 25 there. But I use only two. Bach Mt Vernon 1 1/2g on bass and Denis Wick, (dont know the number) on my Pbone. I have in fact used that Pbone a lot lately in a Disney show for kids. It plays surprisingly OK.

As a general rule I would advise not to mess around to much with mouthpieces. In a beginner/ development period its good to build strength and stableness without changing to much. As a doubler, you have to change. I see most pro symphony players stay stable and use same mouthpiece for years before they might change. And the change is often not drastic. They can't take much chances, they need to use things they know works. Amateurs in bands and local community orchestras can take chances and change every week without any problem. But I believe in being stable, learn and develop the equipment we have. Our body and brain doesn't learn if we confuse it too often. If learning is a goal then. It doesn't have to be, many of us play for the social aspect and thats the best thing about playing an instrument.

Leif

Currently playing on a Muck 23 for 1st trombone in a concert band and a 5G to cover the 4th/bass book in a big band. My embouchure doesn't like it! Would like to settle on one mouthpiece for both.

I've been doing a lot of practice switching between alto, tenor, bass, and contra lately. Using one mouthpiece is really not an option...

It makes you think about your approach in new terms of what changes horn to horn, and what stays the same. One thing I REALLY didn't expect is that on each horn, the notes I'm secure on change quite a bit... but the feel of each partial really is more consistent.

I play bass principally and have played on a Schilke 59 for about 25 years. Lately I have been playing tenor again as well and was using a Schilke 53, but was finding that the rim feels too dissimilar to the 59, which prompted me to try the Griego 1 for bass and 4 for the tenor. The rims are much more similar in feel (I have full lips and prefer a rounded, then rim), than the wider Schilkes. So far these setups seem to work, but I'm still getting used to them at home in my practice sessions.

I would not change mouthpieces around on the same horn in a concert; for me that's just asking for bad attacks, crabs and intonation issues. Also, I would rarely see a situation where I am playing on so diverse a program that it calls for those type of mouthpiece changes. Other better players could probably swing it, but I can't.

There are pros and cons. If you use one mouthpiece and never change you will get used to that mouthpiece. It may serve you well, but you have then less experience. If you change mouthpiece often you will get a lot of experience and might nail down to the few you really like after a while. I think I have more than 100 mouthpieces and I have tried them all. Some came with a trombone and some I have bought separately. A lot of them are good mouthpieces for me and a lot of them are not. In time I have settled on a minimum of sizes. A Bach 6 3/4 C on small tenor, a Hammond 12M and MXL (Bach 5-ish) for medium and large bore and Hammond 20BL (Bach 1 1/4-ish) on Bass and a Bach 12E on alto (if I ever get a chance to play alto again). I do have the largr mouthpieces with Remington taper too to fit my old Conn trombones. I've found these to cover the needs I have. The rest are for reference. I sometimes try them at home just to remember why I don't play them. I think I have about six different Bach 6 1/2 AL and all are different. Some trombones need another mouthpiece to play well. These old horns are not played much in public. I don't think I've used them ever on a gig. I could use a lot of mouthpieces because I have no problem to switch, but I think I have decided what to use finally.

/Tom

Each mp has a different sound and a different way of playing, f.i. the amount of air.
Your body and mind have to get familiar with an other mouthpiece. That can take about 6 weeks.
Do you want that? I don't.
For your information: I only play small and large bore tenor trombones.

As my playing advanced and my embouchure developed - yes. But at this point it's increasingly becoming more of a function of what size horn I am playing and what type of sound I am after to fit within the genre of music I am playing. Mostly, the rim size has stabilized, but the cup config and bore/backbore changes to match the horn and sound requirements as noted above.

Otherwise, just for fun I will test blow something radically different periodically for the learning experience as Tom mentioned. I have found that sometimes playing on a very different sized rim for a short time can help me.

Nope. I train on one til i can do anything i need to. Om my greg black 1g there were some limits to my playing, whereas on my AR Resonance bvl72/2L backbore with a thin rim, i can play things i never dreamed of.

When I practice I use different mouthpieces according to my shape of the day.
For example when I practice tunes with high notes: I will normally use my regular mouthpiece which is a romera brass with a deep cup because I like the full and resonating sound of it. But if I had a busy day playing, the next day I will practice with a shallower Bach 81/2bw. Soundwise it's not what I prefer but high notes pops more easily so I train my muscle memory and I learn the tunes.
I don't know if it's a good habit but I haven't felt any consequences... so far.

My small bore horns use a Bach Mount Vernon 7C, My Bach 36`s use a 7C or a MtV7 or a Elliott E with a Gisrdinelli 4 rim.
Large bore`s I use a Giardinelli Symphony T
Bass Yamaha 59