slide extender

[ennisdavis]

where can i get a slide extender? they seem to be discontinued or out of stock

[Doubler]

You may have to improvise. You can put together something like this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1751930 from PVC tubing.

Or, if that doesn't work, try this:

[Matt K]

What do you mean by slide extender?

[harrisonreed]

Like the DEG slide extender that helps kids get to 7th position.

Discontinued, because it doesn't really work well.

[ennisdavis]

my son cant reach 6 or 7

[Doug Elliott]

When I started at 8 years old I could almost reach 6th. I used a string.

[Kingfan]

This is what is being discussed. https://www.wwbw.com/DEG-Trombone-Hand- ... 65759.wwbw. I just called my local tech and he said he can't get them either. I remember back in the late 70s Alan Kofsky of the Cleveland Orchestra was teaching a kid with a prosthesis instead of a right hand using what looked like a homemade slide extender. No idea who made it, though. Give me half an hour at the hardware store and another hour or two screwing things up in the workshop, then a return trip to the hardware store to get what I forget the first trip, and another hour of cursing and cutting myself on tools, I could cobble something together. If you know a handy person where you live, maybe they can do the same.

[ghmerrill]

I can say with some confidence, based on experience, that you've seriously underestimated the number of trips to the hardware store (assuming you can find one near you nowadays). It would be better take the horn and your tools to the hardware store and do this project on site. There would be a huge saving in time and fuel consumption.

[Kingfan]

I can say with some confidence, based on experience, that you've seriously underestimated the number of trips to the hardware store (assuming you can find one near you nowadays). It would be better take the horn and your tools to the hardware store and do this project on site. There would be a huge saving in time and fuel consumption.

Had no idea you had seen me in action!

[JohnL]

A lot of the little doo-dads that used to be sold by DEG seem to have disappeared. I dug up an article from about a year ago that said that St. Louis Music had acquired the DEG's line of accessories.
https://www.stlouismusic.com/st-louis-m ... -business/

[Bonearzt]

Wouldn't be too hard to fashion something similar to the handle used on the older Gb basses & contras, a swivel on the crossbrace and some kind of rod to hold on to.


Eric

[sungfw]

No sense in making things more complicated than they need to be: tighten down a zip tie around the crossbrace and use the tail as the handle. Done. Quick, easy, cheap.

Or, as Doug Elliott mentioned, use a piece of string.

[timothy42b]

I can say with some confidence, based on experience, that you've seriously underestimated the number of trips to the hardware store (assuming you can find one near you nowadays). It would be better take the horn and your tools to the hardware store and do this project on site. There would be a huge saving in time and fuel consumption.

Had no idea you had seen me in action!

Pretty sure every project I've ever done has taken three trips:
One to buy the parts I think I need.
The second to buy the parts I really need.
The third to replace the parts I broke or dropped down the drain, etc.

The current ongoing project is to repair a broken B21 (it's an airgun, a Chinese clone of a German one, that may not have worked when I got it. Can't remember. It's been broken for at least 10 years, since 2008, when I got it out of storage. ) Disassembling takes a spring compressor - that was three trips on its own. Wood the neighbor put out with the trash, nuts and bolts from home depot, a scissors jack from the thrift store. I got energetic a couple weeks ago, probably from the prednisone, and took it apart. So I ordered the parts online. (counts as 4th trip.) The spring compressor broke during disassembly so - three more trips, to Walmart, Harbor Freight, and Home Depot, to rebuild that in a safer fashion. I'm at 7 trips and it's still in pieces on my project table, but I'm getting close.

The sad thing is this is nowhere near the record for repeat trips. On the other hand, most projects eventually succeed. Persistence is your friend, almost substitutes for skill.

That zip tie is a great idea. Plus it can stay on the horn and will still fit in the case. Awesome!

It gives me an idea for attaching Ken's cantilever support to my valve trombone. But that project is way down in the queue.

[Mamaposaune]

I don't think they work, either. Years ago I had a student that tried one, and I also bought one for my younger son when he started in 4th grade. (I may still have it around, if I can find it you can have it for a few bucks shipping) They quickly gave up using it because 1) it constantly had to be re-tightened, and 2) it was very awkward in positions 1-4. When I tried it, (and I'm permanently 7th-poition impaired) there was no feel for where the positions should be, and I sounded like my beginner students.
IMO, just have him/her play on a normal straight tenor, it will only be a year or two before they can reach 6th, and they generally don't need 7th until 8th or 9th grade anyhow.

[ghmerrill]

Pretty sure every project I've ever done has taken three trips:
One to buy the parts I think I need.
The second to buy the parts I really need.
The third to replace the parts I broke or dropped down the drain, etc.

This is accurate -- except that I find that with advanced age there is a tendency for the process to iterate.

Persistence is your friend, almost substitutes for skill.

Plus, it is one way in which skill is acquired.

I have my own slide extender built into my horn -- in fact two of them. They're very effective and I use them all the time. I think I'd recommend a similar approach for anyone having trouble with 6th and 7th position. I realize that this is heresy in terms of traditional trombone pedagogy. But if the alternative being suggested is some sort of Rube Goldberg device just to reach those two positions (and which, along with the habits it induces, will then be discarded at a later time when new habits can be learned), then the Rube Goldberg approach seems not to be the obviously better choice.

[timothy42b]

I have my own slide extender built into my horn -- in fact two of them. They're very effective and I use them all the time. I think I'd recommend a similar approach for anyone having trouble with 6th and 7th position.

If they have or can afford a valve, why not? I'd rather have someone become dependent on a valve than develop an ear for playing B and C way sharp because "everybody should learn the straight horn first."

[ghmerrill]

Yeah, I'm sure there are a number of issues surrounding the use of horns with F valves for beginning students -- including the availability and price of "student" horns from the "usual suppliers", questions regarding rental horns with F attachments, regulations that may be imposed by school districts, etc. But I do wonder whether at this point any movement in that direction is mostly a result of ossified processes and (to a lesser degree) pedagogical ideology.

My sense is that the rental market for middle school students is a profitable and resistant industry for several reasons, although I know some parents who have caught on quickly to the fact that they can buy a quite useable Chinese horn with an F attachment for less than they're likely to be milked for a rental over time. But it's complicated because most wouldn't even want to go in that direction if they didn't have confidence that the kid would be sticking with it for more than a few months. In our own similar case (decades ago) our son was "started" on oboe even though he was committed to going with bassoon. So a 3-month rental was still wiser than buying an oboe for that amount of time (and still would be, for any playable oboe). After a summer of oboe lessons and a statement that "Enough of the oboe," we got him a used bassoon and he was off and running. I sure see a huge number of student trombones for sale on Craig's list that haven't been used for more than a few months or maybe a year or two. Replacing all those with F attachment horns would bring the cost down on the valved horns.

One other issue often raised is that the F attachment horn is heavier and more difficult for a beginning (say 6th grade) student to handle and play. I just can't buy that -- especially if a genuine line of "introductory" student horns was developed. Maybe these already exist. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure there are valved horns already out there that would be perfectly fine for a standard size 6th grader.

Certainly for any parent already considering buying a horn, one with an attachment seems something to realistically consider. Of course, this in turn raises the question of whether the instructor would be able to handle that situation. In my own case (centuries ago, going into 6th grade), I desperately wanted to play trombone but was told by the instrumental teacher that my arms weren't long enough (actually false) and so ended up with a saxophone! The instructor was a violinist, a regular little martinet, and a terrible teacher -- especially for wind instruments. I can't imagine what he'd have done with a student and an F attachment trombone.

[Kingfan]

I like the zip tie idea. Big zip tie around the slide brace, use smaller zip ties to attach a piece of round wood like a cut-off broom handle to the tail of the big zip tie. It would to the job until the kid's arms grow or the horn shrinks in the wash!

[BillO]

where can i get a slide extender? they seem to be discontinued or out of stock

Trade the trombone in on one with an F-attachment. A used King 607F might do. Or if the medium bore is too much, then a Jupiter JTB710F.

[Kingfan]

where can i get a slide extender? they seem to be discontinued or out of stock

Trade the trombone in on one with an F-attachment. A used King 607F might do. Or if the medium bore is too much, then a Jupiter JTB710F.

I see lots of playable straight student horns for sale in my area for $100 to $200, but one with an F attachment that isn't an cheap imported TSO (Trombone Shaped Object) with a trigger is $600 or higher. Lots cheaper to get a slide extender. The kid will grow!

[Doug Elliott]

Don't give the kid anything past 5th position.
Or get him an alto.

[ghmerrill]

Well, ... https://www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com/stor ... -trombone/

Without actually trying this, it would be premature to think it's just a TSO. My Schiller (also in the "American Heritage" line -- whatever that means ) worked just fine as it arrived at my door. Of course, it would be taking a chance. And it is a large bore tenor with an F attachment. So perhaps not ideal even if it works well.

And here's an alto for under $300: https://www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com/stor ... -trombone/.

Sure these aren't professional level horns, or horns that you'd keep and will to your grandchildren, or even horns that you might want to be playing in another three years (though they might be -- hard to tell). But aren't we talking about a kid who can't reach 6th/7th position and for whom a good "keeper" of a horn seems like bit of a wonky idea?

Maybe think of this as the Harbor Freight of trombones? I have some HF tools that are actually as good as the branded products they're copied from. Just a thought.

[Kingfan]

Perfect example of what I mean by a cheap imported TSO. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Muslady-Interm ... ition=1000

[ghmerrill]

Perfect example of what I mean by a cheap imported TSO. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Muslady-Interm ... ition=1000

A demo/test/review of that horn:

Certainly some problematic and odd design/use issues that are best avoided. On the other hand, I've yet to see those sorts of problems on any Chinese instruments I've personally seen (from such vendors as Mack Brass, Wessex, and Schiller).

[nicoleabissi]

I have invented a new extension handle taking pre-orders. I used to use the DEG handle and when it was discontinued I was very disappointed for students and smaller professionals like myself. So, I endeavored to make something better.
extendabone.com

[sacfxdx]

3d printed options
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3599377
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1751930

I think Nicole's is https://extendabone.com/

[jbeatenbough]

LOL... I'm trying to stay away from comments that might be censored...

Can't reach 6th or 7th? Take it up an octave (or two).

[OzTromboneHandles]

I have Leather handles available now.

I first made these 25 years ago, and have just found a guy who hand makes them from Australian leather.
I am happy to post internationally. Payment via paypal.
email me at oztrombonehandles at gmail dot com

https://oztrombonehandles.business.site

[CalgaryTbone]

I don't want to take business away from the folks who have designed products, but I have often thought that you could making something similar out of a leather trumpet mouthpiece pouch. You might want to cut a popsicle stick to size to put inside it to make it more rigid. It would be in the student's palm while they were playing with a traditional grip, and then they would hold the leather piece for 6th and 7th positions - kind of how the handle works on a G bass.

I know a professional player (a woman who doesn't have the reach for 7th position) who had a round bit of metal soldered on the slide grip that gave her some extra reach. She plays very well with that set-up!

Jim Scott

[BGuttman]

I don't want to take business away from the folks who have designed products, but I have often thought that you could making something similar out of a leather trumpet mouthpiece pouch. You might want to cut a popsicle stick to size to put inside it to make it more rigid. It would be in the student's palm while they were playing with a traditional grip, and then they would hold the leather piece for 6th and 7th positions - kind of how the handle works on a G bass.

I know a professional player (a woman who doesn't have the reach for 7th position) who had a round bit of metal soldered on the slide grip that gave her some extra reach. She plays very well with that set-up!

Jim Scott

The Instrumentalist magazine actually had an article on how to make a slide extender. It was some time around the 1950s.

[OzTromboneHandles]

The Instrumentalist magazine actually had an article on how to make a slide extender. It was some time around the 1950s.

The handle I have made is exactly that one from the Instrumentalist magazine. IT took a few little modifications, but works perfectly and lasts for a long time - and weights only 40 grams.

I can post internationally quite cheaply if anyone is after one.

[LeTromboniste]

The zip tie trick or anything leather wouldn't work nearly as well as a proper slide handle. You need the extension to be rigid to really control where the slide is going. You don't want to have to throw the slide forward to extend the handle, and you want to be able to bring the slide back in to any position with the handle without having different arm/wrist/hand position on the way up as you have on the way down.

Proper slide handle should be riveted to the brace (solder might not be enough to withstand the stress in the long term). Riveted has another advantage in that the handle can move in an additional axis. Make the join between the rod and the river a universal joint and now the handle can move freely in any axis.

[CalgaryTbone]

A proper handle might be better, but if it's for a young student, hopefully it's just a temporary fix until their arms grow a bit. As far as making the leather handle a bit more rigid, that's why I suggested a cut down popsicle stick inserted into the mouthpiece pouch (maybe a short small wooden dowel?).

Also, a young player won't need it to be perfect for technical passages, since they will still have a couple of years until that problem comes up. At that point, hopefully, they no longer need a slide extension.

Jim Scott

[harrisonreed]

....or just get a used 3BF or 36B, or import horn with F attachment...

[bigbandbone]

I find myself playing more and more with my single rotor bass pulled to E. So, I find myself in 7+ a lot more. I've been trying to come up with a design for an slide extension that would be rigid, comfortable, still allow for 1st position without hitting inner slide brace or my face, and easily removeable so the slide will fit in the case! If I come up with something I'll post a pic.

[ZacharyThornton]

https://extendabone.com/
This is a good product and cheap. Works a lot better than the old DEG one.