TromboneChat

Hi everyone! I have read here and there about the lead pipe on stock Bach 16Ms being weird. I have a 16M LT from the late 80s that has the original lead pipe. I have never felt like that horn plays as easily as it could and I'm considering changing the lead pipe but really don't know what to do and who to do it.

Any thoughts from folks?

Lead pipes are a strange & interesting item.
No two are exactly alike, even of the same model.

So you'll have to try several once you get the original pulled.

The only way to try them is to play them in actual playing situations if at all possible!!! You will not get the same feeling just noodling around in a practice room, And when you try them, don't look at which is which.


Eric

Remember if you pull the pipe you usually loose the existing pipe or inner side in the process! (Or both!)

A good way to try new pipes is to put a new top inner tube in and leave the old pipe/inner in tact. That way you can put the horn back if you don't find the pipe of your dreams.

Hamo

My 9 slide came with a removable 402 pipe, which is I think the standard 16M pipe. In the 9, it's a ferocious paint peeler. I assume that it is providing the same service to the 16M, and sounds okay, which suggests to me that the 16M may be rather a dull beast otherwise.

[edited 401 to 402]

16M has both tubes at 0.509". The original 16 had a dual bore with the top tube at 0.495" similar to your 9.

Kanstul H8 is apparently a good replacement. I'm thinking about one for mine as well. I like this horn but every once in a while it does just the weirdest things.

I had the pipe pulled on mine. Made a huge difference. Currently using a Shires 2.5.

Here’s a picture of a standard Shires pipe next to the 16m pipe. Strange beast indeed.



Andrew

Slidemo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:11 am Remember if you pull the pipe you usually loose the existing pipe or inner side in the process! (Or both!)

A good way to try new pipes is to put a new top inner tube in and leave the old pipe/inner in tact. That way you can put the horn back if you don't find the pipe of your dreams.

Hamo

Not true. I would say 95% of the time I get them out just fine. Anyone who is destroying the pipe and/or tube more than 50% of the time really should not be attempting to do that kind of work.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:52 pm

Slidemo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:11 am Remember if you pull the pipe you usually loose the existing pipe or inner side in the process! (Or both!)

A good way to try new pipes is to put a new top inner tube in and leave the old pipe/inner in tact. That way you can put the horn back if you don't find the pipe of your dreams.
Hamo

Not true. I would say 95% of the time I get them out just fine. Anyone who is destroying the pipe and/or tube more than 50% of the time really should not be attempting to do that kind of work.

Exactly!! But I do warn my customers that there is a good probability that the pipe won't some out easily or in one piece. JUST for that 5 percenter that is fused to the inner tube!!


Eric

You might contact Brass Ark/Noah G (although wasn’t that Brad Close above?) and see what they can do. They made a .509 32H leadpipe for my Bach slide that seems like a keeper. Pretty subtle stuff though.

TheBoneRanger wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:43 pm I had the pipe pulled on mine. Made a huge difference. Currently using a Shires 2.5.

Here’s a picture of a standard Shires pipe next to the 16m pipe. Strange beast indeed.



Andrew

I should have pulled the pipe on my mid 80’s 16M. I knew it had a shorter pipe, but WOW! Would have firmed up the slotting I bet. Maybe I would still have it.

I have a Kanstul H8 pipe in my 16MG.
It made all the difference in how it plays.
Slots better, much better upper range. I think it sounds a little darker

Is it just the later 16Ms with the funky short pipe or do the regular 16s also have the funky pipe too?

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:42 pm Is it just the later 16Ms with the funky short pipe or do the regular 16s also have the funky pipe too?

16 has a different upper slide tube with a "normal" leadpipe.

The stock leadpipe on my 16 (regular duo-bore) is 5.75" long.

Seems pretty short compared to two other leadpipes I'm trying to decide on.

I still like the initial feel and blow of the middle Bb on my stock pipe...but, once I warm up a bit, I find it lacking throughout the range of the horn compared to a BrassArk pipe or a Kanstul pipe.

But everytime I try a different mouthpiece, I have to go through the whole deal of seeing which leadpipe is best with a particular mouthpiece, which is a real drag, and can get very confusing depending on the day and feel of the chops.

Hmmm.....but, I think there are definitely better pipe options than the stock Bach.