Bass Trombone Mouthpiece help

[Bassbonebabe]

I've been playing bass trombone for a a few months over a year (full time in two ensembles since August). I was recommended a Bach 1 1/2 G but felt it was extremely limiting and moved to the Griego CS1 that had come with my Custom Series Getzen 3062 AF Bass Trombone and it has proven to be my favorite for the entirety of 2018. However, I am looking into more mouthpiece options similar to it as I believe there could be better options, preferably Griego, out there of any brand. Suggestions?

The CS1 has
27.99mm cup diameter.
7.92mm (0.312") throat

[FeelMyRath]

What are you looking to change about your sound? Are you looking for a change for comfort reasons? What are you trying to achieve?

All important questions to ask yourself when thinking of changing mouthpiece!

[Slideorama]

Try some different blanks in the Griego 1.5 range.

http://www.griegomouthpieces.com/produc ... ombone.php

[RoscoTrombone]

I've been playing bass trombone for a a few months over a year (full time in two ensembles since August). I was recommended a Bach 1 1/2 G but felt it was extremely limiting and moved to the Griego CS1 that had come with my Custom Series Getzen 3062 AF Bass Trombone and it has proven to be my favorite for the entirety of 2018. However, I am looking into more mouthpiece options similar to it as I believe there could be better options, preferably Griego, out there of any brand. Suggestions?

The CS1 has
27.99mm cup diameter.
7.92mm (0.312") throat

Can I ask how long you gave the 1.5G before deciding to change? Limiting in what way? Did you find anything particularly difficult to do on it? We've all tried mouthpieces which don't "work" and I'd be the biggest hypocrite if I said that wasn't the case for me. For me it's the bigger ones. When I moved to bass full time I spent a few months on a 3G to start adapting then a 2G which I stayed on for years before getting the bug. I always went back to the 2 though. I'm now settled on a 1.5G size.

However you've not been playing bass very long so starting to chop and change might not be the best idea at the moment. Try the 1.5G again and ask yourself these questions then spend a few months seeing if you can make it work - it's never an instafix. Plus you'll save yourself a bit of money too.

Just my tuppence worth after wasting hundreds on this or that mouthpiece.

Ross

[ghmerrill]

Excellent advice from Ross, in my own experience. Also, you can't expect to find the perfect mouthpiece right off the bat (or even very quickly). As you play more, both your skill with the instrument and a particular mouthpiece may develop. Then you may want/need to change. But in my case it usually takes several months at least to get to that situation.

Certainly nothing wrong with experimenting -- if you have the time, money, and situation to do it. I've always tended to kind of zero in on a mouthpiece for a given instrument over a period of a year or more. Kind of a "binary search algorithm". Too deep. Too shallow, Too small rim diameter. Too big rim diameter. Nice, but not quite the right sound. Great except for those double valve notes. Etc., etc. And things change -- YOU change.

It's a journey.

Anecdote: My wife and I went to a Canadian Brass concert last week. First time we'd seen them in 30 years, and the only original left is Chuck Daellenbach. I was sitting in an aisle seat as they did their typical entrance playing "Closer Walk", and looked up to be astounded at Daellenbach's mouthpiece. Classic Conn? No. Perantucci? No. A really nice gold-plated boutique speciman? No. It was ... wait for it ... drum roll ... A very bright crystal red Kelly. Not sure which one since I didn't get that good a look at it, but I'd guess either the Kellyberg or the Bach 18 clone. Now reflect on that a bit. (Full disclosure: I own five Kelly mouthpieces for trombones and tubas. I use only one of them semi-regularly since I love my DE's for bass trombone and euphonium and my Wick 3XL is absolutely the best for my Eb compensator. But every one of those Kellys is a good mouthpiece for me -- except the Kellyberg, which like any full-size Helleberg -- sucks the air out of my lungs.)

[BGuttman]

My first question when I hear about anybody going very large is "how in tune is your upper register (above the bass staff)?" If you find the notes above the bass staff flat, the mouthpiece is too large for your current state of embouchure.

I found the extreme sized bass mouthpieces too big. I started on a 1 1/2 G like everybody else and went bigger in stages: Schilke 59 for a while and then met Doug Elliott who made a mouthpiece just a shade under a Schilke 60 or Bach 1G. That was my bass mouthpiece when I was doing bass almost full time. When I haven't been playing bass in a while I use a smaller mouthpiece: a Marcinkiewicz GR, which is a little larger than a 1 1/2 G and a little smaller than s Schilke 59.

Note that on all my mouthpices I can easily hit F 6 ledger lines above the bass staff (but I can't play there all day on a bass mouthpiece).

[BrassedOn]

I concur with the above. Too little info to make a recommendation.

We used to call the mouthpiece search “the game”. In part because we are searching for unicorns, the head game for some idealized piece. Also like the lottery, winning is the day you hit the right combination. Same with horns.

For me, though, it ultimately came down to my PBM. Very painful, physically and emotionally, as you might expect. PBM basically thrashed me for years. PBE, too. Yeah I was a mess. It really dashed my self esteem, I was ready to drop playing altogether. But I couldn’t see how PBM was affecting my tone and flexibility. Endurance. I spent a lot of $$$$ on mouthpieces hoping for some, any relief. This went on for years. But I just had to play through it. And put in a lot of extra time and effort, I felt, compared to my peers. And it never got better. I talked with others who still have the same issue. A lot of us have dealt with PBM for years until one day we begin to see it subside a little. Which is encouraging. But never totally goes away.

[ghmerrill]

I think of my DE LB mouthpiece as a large 1 1/2 G or a small 1 1/4 G -- but better (for me) than either. And I love the Lexan rims. Other than that, what I'd probably be using is a Stork 1.5. I have the heavyweight version, but I'm not sure it makes all that much difference. I haven't tried the Stork 1.25, which might work for me as well or maybe a bit better. But given my DE situation, I'm not inclined towards more experimentation.

[Matt K]

The 1.5 tends to have a wider rim than many other rims. If you find it limiting but want something with a similar diameter, the Schilke series and anything derived from them might be more your speed. 58 would be similar, though the Schilke 59 are quite popular. Doug's stock bass rims are similar to that shape.

I really prefer narrow rims; the additional flexibility I get from them far outweighs any of the benefits of the wider rim *for me*. But other players have quite the opposite experience.

[Bassbonebabe]

Thank you all for your advice.

For clarification I've been playing tenor trombone since 6th grade and am now in 11th. I started bass in one ensemble at the start of my 10th grade year and moved to the bass in two ensembles my 11th.

The Bach 1.5G was too thick rimmed I believe as I could not put enough air to consistently speak in the lower range; it always felt unnatural. I moved to the Griego CS1 because it had come with my bass and I didnt have the money to go buy an additional mouthpiece (having bought the Bach one from my director's suggestion). Immediately, it was easier to put air through the horn and far more comfortable. I've been using the Griego since I first tried it at the start of 2018. Its done wonders for me, but I still struggle cleanly attacking certain lower notes like C below the staff. My upper register struggles but I figure that's just embouture. I am looking into buying a newer, less beat up, Griego but figured I'd look into other options first. The Griego is one of two including the Bach that I've legitimately tried and was wondering if it was just the cheap starter throw-in deal when we bought my bass or if there was a better version I could work into with experience. The Griego is nice but there have been times I've had to stop and readjust to change register. Once again, this all could be an embouture issue, but I have the opportunity to improve my mouthpiece and figured I'd take it.

[BGuttman]

Note to bassbonebabe: you need to have two approved posts to see your replies. You had only one. So your efforts to repost 8 times didn't show. You now have two posts and will see all posts you make (as well as being able to message Forum members).

[Slidennis]

Air is not what makes sound...

...lip vibration is...

There are sweet spots on every one's lips to get the most efficient vibration for each area of the range and at any dynamic...

...it took me decades to be completely aware of it, and lots of different axes and mouthpieces...

Wish I had stayed much longer with only one axe and one mouthpiece to find it out faster...

One more thing : never mess with figures and what is said about a mouthpiece : just try it blindly and focus on your sensation, your bare perception...

[harrisonreed]

Griego does indeed make great mouthpieces.

You really should take a hard look at physical practicalities before messing around with bass mouthpieces larger than the 1.5 ballpark. Based on your profile, I see that you are 16, and possibly female. It is very important to use a rim that fits your face as it is here and now. So, while Griego makes excellent mouthpieces designed for Gerry Pagano and Dave Taylor, it might be that those rims are the right fit for only .001% of 16 year olds of either gender -- trombonists who have some growing yet to do.

Whereas a more affordable 3G, 2G, or 1.5G (way more affordable if you get a Faxx or Bach) might fit your face much better now, help your progress, and not break the bank considering you may grow out of it in a few years.

Male vs. Female isn't an issue with musical potential or ability, but you still have to get the correct sized mouthpiece and filter out the noise of advice teachers may give you. "Oh, you should play a 1.G, because that's how it is". Is it?

The difference between the men and women 100M world record is less than a second (to me that is basically the same level of unbelievable running), but I guarantee the women are not wearing Usain Bolt's shoe size. The same should go for brass instruments.

But put that idea aside, and we can just generalize. Get the right sized rim for yourself, here and now, and not what might or might not be ideal later on down the road. I'm going to guess that something smaller than a 1.5G is what you would need.

[blast]

Thank you all for your advice.

For clarification I've been playing tenor trombone since 6th grade and am now in 11th. I started bass in one ensemble at the start of my 10th grade year and moved to the bass in two ensembles my 11th.

The Bach 1.5G was too thick rimmed I believe as I could not put enough air to consistently speak in the lower range; it always felt unnatural. I moved to the Griego CS1 because it had come with my bass and I didnt have the money to go buy an additional mouthpiece (having bought the Bach one from my director's suggestion). Immediately, it was easier to put air through the horn and far more comfortable. I've been using the Griego since I first tried it at the start of 2018. Its done wonders for me, but I still struggle cleanly attacking certain lower notes like C below the staff. My upper register struggles but I figure that's just embouture. I am looking into buying a newer, less beat up, Griego but figured I'd look into other options first. The Griego is one of two including the Bach that I've legitimately tried and was wondering if it was just the cheap starter throw-in deal when we bought my bass or if there was a better version I could work into with experience. The Griego is nice but there have been times I've had to stop and readjust to change register. Once again, this all could be an embouture issue, but I have the opportunity to improve my mouthpiece and figured I'd take it.

All the very finest sounds I have heard coming out of a bass trombone player in the top professional levels have come out of Bach 2G and 1 1/2G (or equivalent size) . Some amazing players on other stuff,shure... just talking sound.... minor detail. If you are just playing in school, play whatever you like and enjoy honking around. More long term.... needing an upper register.... think more. The problems are less likely to be you than the equipment, though without seeing you I cannot say for sure. It's never been easy to master all the registers of the bass trombone.... easy one and you Get hard the other way.

Chris

[Russjones92]

Excellent advice from everyone here, when I was playing bass bone all the time I started on a Schilke 59, then moved to the D6.0 and noticed that my high range (F4 and up was flat) so I just practiced until my chops adjusted to the depth of the cup. Then I settled finally on the Doug Yeo signature. But yes definitely look at what you want to accomplish with any change to equipment you make best of luck