TromboneChat

I've got an old Conn 74I double bell baritone with a very loose tuning slide. I'm don't want to try expanding the inner tubes for fear they'll split. I've already dealt with the slippage issue (a stop rod installed by John Sandhagen), but I think it might be leaking a bit. I'm currently using Schilke tuning slide grease (anhydrous lanolin), so I'm looking for thicker goop.

Monster is thick and sticky.

STP

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:28 amSTP

This^^

Or do it right and get them fitted correctly!



Eric

It seems to me you could anneal the ends of the tubes and expand a tiny bit with no risk of splitting.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:10 pm It seems to me you could anneal the ends of the tubes and expand a tiny bit with no risk of splitting.

I'd be very leery of any expansion, even with an anneal. The tubes have some pitting on the ID (the leadpipe goes into the tuning slide, saxhorn-style) . If I played the horn more than a half-dozen times a year, I'd get someone to fab a complete new tuning slide.

Hetman USG (ultra slide grease) is about one step removed from super glue.

But use it as a short-term fix only. A good repair guy will sort it out properly so you don't need such shenanigans...

Andrew

Ultra-Pure HEAVY Tuning Slide Lube

TheBoneRanger wrote: ↑Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:43 pmA good repair guy will sort it out properly so you don't need such shenanigans...

On a modern horn, sorting it out would be easy. On something that's pushing 100 years old and looks it, discretion is sometimes the better part of valor.

I have a loose tuning slide on a trombone, that just keeps going back in. The only thing that worked for me was Hetman 9 USG. That was discontinued a few years back and the stuff they replaced it with didn't work for me, so I've been hanging on to what my still half-full jar for dear life. But I see it on their website, so maybe the started making it again? If so, then that shsould do the trick. It's absurdly thick and sticky.

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:55 am

TheBoneRanger wrote: ↑Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:43 pmA good repair guy will sort it out properly so you don't need such shenanigans...

On a modern horn, sorting it out would be easy. On something that's pushing 100 years old and looks it, discretion is sometimes the better part of valor.

Gotcha. I play in a brass ensemble that performs on instruments of around that era, and sometimes a crack can appear simply by staring at it for too long...

Also, tolerances were often a little more ambiguous back then. An Eb bass saxhorn that I’m fortunate to play feels quite anemic until you add some thick oil to the valves, then the instrument really comes to life.

Andrew

This is a bit risky, but it can work. I've cleaned tubes like this, heated them uniformly, added liquid flux, then a small amount of sliver-bearing solder. I then re-heat and wipe the solder off with a cotton cloth. I end up with a thin layer of solder "plating" the original metal. It goes on surprisingly smoothly, and the minor variations in thickness allow the tube to fit better. I use a solder that's meant for "presentation" and that is designed to maintain its color and shine. Lead-based solders would oxidize too quickly, and might end up sticking.

I would think the horn would play better with more metal-to-metal contact, rather than the inner slide cushioned by a thick layer of goo.

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:29 am I have a loose tuning slide on a trombone, that just keeps going back in. The only thing that worked for me was Hetman 9 USG. That was discontinued a few years back and the stuff they replaced it with didn't work for me, so I've been hanging on to what my still half-full jar for dear life. But I see it on their website, so maybe the started making it again? If so, then that shsould do the trick. It's absurdly thick and sticky.

I use the Hetmans #9 as well. Our Principal Trumpet here told me about it, and he got started using it on the recommendation of great Toronto-based repairman Ron Partch. Ron likes the way that this thick, sticky tuning slide grease seems to seal that part of the horn and make it feel more like the slide-tuning instruments. It's hard to find right now - Hetman's isn't making it anymore. I had one jar, and found a couple more on eBay. It's a bit of a pain to apply - like glue on your hands, but worth it in my opinion.

Jim Scott

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:28 amSTP

The motor oil additive? You haven't seen Hetman USG then. The posters here that have know what thick and sticky is. OMG the stuff is like warm taffy. Barely warm taffy. I had some 10 years ago and lost it during my hiatus. When I started playing again this summer I looked for but couldn't find any USG.

STP has been around for 65 years and is readily available.

Apparently the same can't be said for that Hetman's stuff.

I do have Herman's TSG (Tuning slide grease) and it's good stuff, but I used STP for decades before that. I don't ever use my tuning slide; I just want something on there that will allow it to be removed, and STP was great for that.

Anhydrous Lanolin.

Was about to say, that good ol' sheep fat never fails. You can even use it with tighter tuning slides, as long as you cut it with some valve oil.

Castor oil. Seriously. Lasts forever.

The best stick slide grease I have found is Selmer cork grease - comes in a white plastic bottle with red letters. Meant for clarinet cork, is super sticky, and works perfect on loose tuning slides.

marccromme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:56 pm The best stick slide grease I have found is Selmer cork grease - comes in a white plastic bottle with red letters. Meant for clarinet cork, is super sticky, and works perfect on loose tuning slides.

Cork greases in general work very well for this purpose. Often the big problem is putting on a thick layer to compensate for a worn tuning slide.

Red n tacky from depot.

Regarding the use of STP [Scientifically Treated Petroleum] for ANY purpose on your instrument ------ . Back when STP was brought on the market and aggressively marketed by Andy Granatelli, a prominent automotive figure, many instrumentalists saw the usefulness of the stuff and started slathering it on their tuning slides. It worked great ! Then, a lot of folks who were wearers of contact lenses realized that they were having foggy vision and that their contact lenses were no longer comfortable. Long story short ----- STP was formulated to STICK with a vengeance to whatever it touched and that included the fingers of those who got it on them ! Even a tough scrubbing with a brush would leave minute traces which were transferred to their contact lenses where it corroded the plastic and even got into their eyes ! NOT a great idea ! My tech once chose to use hypoid gear oil on my main tuning slide ! Not only did it stink to high heaven, but it was designed to "creep" in the differential of a car and did the very same thing in my horn. Within days, the miserable stuff crept into my valve mechanism causing everything to go into slow motion and causing me to have to have my instrument chemically cleaned [at the tech's expense] ! The specialty lubricants that are available today may seem expensive, but next to the cost of a craft beer, are a real bargain ! Buy them and sleep soundly. Cheers to all !

2bobone wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:26 pm ... but next to the cost of a craft beer, are a real bargain ! ...

Exactly.

Craft beer, Hetman lube. Same price but the Hetman lasts a LOT longer!

Zaja in the glass jar. Started using it around 1990 on a 16M slide that slid in when I put the horn on a stand. Just looked for it, and sadly it’s discontinued. I have enough to last a couple decades, as I only grease my tuning slide a couple times a year. I always push it in when I case my horn. Keeps it from drying out.

Dillon sells a very thick tuning slide grease under their own name. Cheap and effective. Should not be used on tight slides though as it makes them very hard to move.

Dow Corning stop Dick grease is really thick and works well. You can cut it with a drop of valve oil on the slide.

Spell check got me. It's DOW CORNING STOP COCK grease. Oh, the implications of spell check. BTW the Dow stuff is highly recommended by Doug Yeo.

+1 for the Selmer tuning slide & cork grease.

If I'm not mistaken, Selmer Tuning Slide & Cork Grease has been discontinued. Alternatives from Alsyn, La Tromba, and Ultra-Pure are available. Experimenting with beeswax might also be worth a try, but having a competent tech expand the slide is probably the best solution.

Hetmans USG #9 is what I use. If you can find it you won't use a lot of it. I bought it for a euphonium my school had 13 years ago, and am back at the same school using the same USG on the same euphonium.

DOW HIGH VACUUM GREASE.

baBposaune wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:14 am DOW HIGH VACUUM GREASE.

This is what I use on all my horns, but it's a bit pricey for a tube. You can get similar silicone grease in small plastic containers sold as "faucet" or "plumber's" grease in the Lowes or HD plumbing section (typically either where all the faucet parts are or with the solder/plumber's putty/PVC glue/etc.). And it's a bit more convenient so to throw into your case instead of having to transfer from the DOW tube from time to time. Definitely not as fancy or high quality/purity as the Dow stuff. But easy and quick to get and try.

I don't consider $13.75 US for a lifetime supply pricey. The container I have is 2 ounces or 57 grams. I works so well I don't need to reapply it unless for some reason I have to wipe it off completely. I will pay a bit more for the quality/purity and performance, but that's just how I roll.

I thought it was a lifetime's supply too. It's turning out not to be, and it's getting near the point where I need to get some more. In part that's because I use it for a variety of other things besides my brass instruments.

Also, since I get the 5.3 oz tubes, that's why I was mentioning the price: > US $40 via Amazon Prime. This may be a bit much for some people (e.g., students or those just wanting to try it out without a big commitment) when a small tube of DANCO silicone grease can be had for about US $3. Having used the plumbing variety grease, I'm not convinced that for slide lubrication purposes there would be a noticeable difference.

Stickiest? Gorilla Glue.
Maybe too sticky.

dershem wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:44 pm Stickiest? Gorilla Glue.
Maybe too sticky.

Wow, all the good answers taken. So all that’s left is a well placed dent in the outer.

Not all advice should be taken.!

baBposaune wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:14 am DOW HIGH VACUUM GREASE.

This is probably the stickiest I've ever used but be very careful - if you get it in your rotor you basically have to give it an acid bath to get it back to its original speed.

I think the "acid bath" part is a little overstated ( ), especially in the case of rotary valves; and I'm not sure how well acid would actually work on it. But this is a good warning for any silicone grease: that it will "migrate" to your valves (assuming you have valves in whatever instrument you're playing). I've never actually seen this in my own case, but I don't overuse it. One of its advantages is that (even for a loose-ish tuning slide) you need VERY little of it. It doesn't dilute down and run away like other "greases" do. I have got it to dissolve away by soaking in ultra-pure lamp oil (AKA highly refined kerosene), but it took at least a couple of weeks. I think it took longer. I put a dab in the lamp oil in a jar, and weeks later noticed the dab had been absorbed.

Silicone grease is "officially" soluble in organic solvents. There is also a lot of solubility folklore on the web concerning it. For the serious and courageous, Xylene and toluene are reported to work pretty well. But most people are reluctant to go in that direction. Here are some other nifty things to try (or definitely not): http://www.clearcoproducts.com/pdf/libr ... ility1.pdf. I guess if I had to, I'd probably go with MEK -- largely because I have a gallon of it.

Xylene, Toluene, and MEK are all pretty vicious solvents. All carcinogenic. All poisonous.

I believe you can get the Dow grease to dissolve in a lower molecular weight silicone oil, which would be a lot safer. But it's not going to completely clean everything off.

If you are going to go the organic solvent route you might want to try something like Butyl Carbitol or another glycol ether.

My experience -- as a practical matter rather than a theoretical "can it be dissolved" matter -- is that you can WIPE any excess off a surface to the point that you can't tell there's any on it. Even in the case of a valve, this doesn't seem to leave any residue to inhibit motion. Then lubricate as usual with (as Bruce suggests) a silicone oil -- which many of us use anyway. This, to some degree, mimics what a lot of us do to our hand slides.

I actually tried this on my old tuba, hoping it would tighten up one of the valves, but still not inhibit its motion. I put the Dow grease on the piston, then rubbed it thoroughly and wiped it off as completely as I could. You couldn't tell visually that there was anything on it (if there was). Then I applied my Yamaha Synthetic Valve oil and ... drum roll ... there was no difference from before I did all that. So all the evidence I have is that if you can thoroughly wipe off this grease, you don't have to worry about dissolving it.