TromboneChat

http://www.slidedr.com/greatslide/#.W6yCJ8na3qA

anyone tried? how is it ?

This stuff is fantastic. I use it on all my slides. It takes a bit of elbow grease but lasts for months. If you do a thorough job, you only need a very small amount of slide lube, I use a tiny amount of ultra-Pure trombone slide lube, a tiny amount of silicone, and water. Most days, all I use is a quick spray of water to keep the slide running smooth.

By using so little lube the slide stays clean for a long time and only really needs the treatment after many months of playing.

Yep. The real deal.

whoaaa
I might get some of this when my slide-o-mix runs out

Tetraphosphate wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:51 am whoaaa
I might get some of this when my slide-o-mix runs out

Why wait? It's not a slide lubricant, but instead it's a slide cleaning product. It cleans out corrosion and the 2nd bottle leaves a polymer sealant on it. Then you still have to use slide o mix (although other lubes play better with great slide) to keep the slide moving. You just need a lot less lubricant after the treatment.

It's awesome!

Ahhhhh

I was going to comment but Harrison already said exactly what I was going to say.

Check out the website and watch the videos. In the videos they explain that after the tubes are round and parallel the only thing that slows the slide is tarnish and all the built up slide lube. Once you get rid of that, the slide glides along easily and barely needs any lubrication.

It is amazing how much some players beat up their face using Gunked up slides.

As a bonus it also makes slide vibrato usable. Bill Watrous kept his slide in perfect shape. He would buff it out everyday. There is a YouTube video of him giving a talk at a music store and explaining his cleaning habits.

Some people play beautifully with a crappy slide but I suspect they play well in spite of the bad slide. Why work that hard of you don’t have to?

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:43 am

Tetraphosphate wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:51 am whoaaa
I might get some of this when my slide-o-mix runs out

Why wait? It's not a slide lubricant, but instead it's a slide cleaning product. It cleans out corrosion and the 2nd bottle leaves a polymer sealant on it. Then you still have to use slide o mix (although other lubes play better with great slide) to keep the slide moving. You just need a lot less lubricant after the treatment.

I'm a little confused/curious about the use of these.

The Cleaning Polish seems to be ... well ... some sort of polish. Is it an abrasive? Or a solvent? Does it just clean chemically? Anyone have any real knowledge about this? "Polish" usually implies "abrasive", but sometimes is used more loosely to mean "something that makes stuff shine". For example, Nu Finish car polish isn't tuly a polish, but is a "blend of advanced polymers", etc. I've been using it for years on a number of things (mostly not cars ). It actually sounds more than a bit like the Slide Doctor's Cleaning Polish. I can't get a definitive answer to whether Wright's Brass Polish is abrasive, but I notice that Wright's Copper Polish mentions nothing about abrasives on its label, but does refer to citirc acid. I've become a big fan of citric acid cleaners in recent years and use one to clean the inside of my outer slide on a regular basis.

Then there's the Great Slide Slickcoat Sealant, which is "a blend of synthetic and natural polymers" I wonder if this really differs much (in practice or results) from the silicone slide lubricant products on the market -- like Superslick Creme and (particularly) Superslick Plus. After all, silicone is one example of a "synthetic polymer".

The process described for these products sounds a lot like what I do when I clean my slide using a small collection of "household ingredients", and then lube it with Superslick Cream and Plus. I'm thinking that the Great Slide products might add some utility and simplicity to this approach, but I wonder if it's really different (in terms of cleaning, cleaning materials, and lubricating materials) than what I'm already doing?

Anyone have any informed thoughts on this? Any polymer chemists among us who might offer opinions? Otherwise, whenever I run out of my Superslick stuff (probably in a year or two? ), I'll probably throw $23.95 at this and see how it works.

Yes, its a micro abrasive. The sealant isn't a lubricant.

Still puzzled by this.

Where do you see the cleaner referred to as a "micro abrasive"? I just don't see this mentioned anywhere.

And in what sense isn't the sealant a lubricant? If the sealant is silicone (or a similar polymer) which is "coating" the interior of the outer slide, then most people would describe this as a lubricant coating? And it does need to be reapplied periodically. So it's not a coating (like, for example, teflon might be) physically bonded to the metal. The description even says that a major effect of the sealant is to "make the surface as uniformly smooth as possible". So it's a coating that lubricates and this (one would think) makes it a lubricant. And the description also seems to be exactly how the action of silicone works. If "lubricant" means something else, I'm curious as to exactly what distinction (other than a marketing one) is being drawn. I also don't see anything wrong (or inaccurate) with saying something like "Great Slide Slickcoat Sealant" is a long-lasting lubricant. What am I missing?

The term for "make the surface as smooth as possible" is "leveling". Imperfections like pits and scratches will work against lubrication and making the inside of the outer slide smooth and uniform will make the lubricant work better.

You can even consider an acid a microabrasive. The term simply means the particles (if there are any) are very small and will not remove a lot of material. An acid treatment with a weak acid like citric will also remove a minimum of metal. And since the acid works preferentially on oxides it removes an abrasive coating that works against the slide lubricant.

Does anyone has experience on how it would work on raw brass or nickel silver slides without chrome galvanization. Does it prolong or hasten aging of slides?

(Citric acid on brass/nickel silver sounds scary especially on 100 years old slides) if it does indeed have something to do with acid.)

$35,- shipping.. That's a lot!

bcschipper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:38 pm Does anyone has experience on how it would work on raw brass or nickel silver slides without chrome galvanization. Does it prolong or hasten aging of slides?

(Citric acid on brass/nickel silver sounds scary especially on 100 years old slides) if it does indeed have something to do with acid.)

All acids are not created equal. Some acids, like hydrochloric or nitric, are very strong and will attack brass. Some acids are "organic" (coming from nature) like citric (lemons) or acetic (vinegar). Organic acids are not as strong as mineral acds and will preferentially attack metal oxides; and slowly at that.

Very old slides will not have a plating (proper English term, not galvanization) of chrome. Some will have a plating of nickel; particularly on teh stocking. A mild organic acid will not damage these slides unless you do some radical things like soak them for a few days. Old brass can be unusually brittle or have "red rot" (loss of zinc from the alloy) and should be treated carefully. They can break easily.

Regarding the sense of "abrasive", anyone is welcome to use this as they like, but to view acid as an abrasive is seriously deviant in terms of its use in machining, engineering, and science where the characterizations use such terms as "grinding", "rough", "the surface being "worn away", "wear and tear", "honing", "lapping" -- all of which refer to friction and physical contact of particles, and not to a chemical action. I could see referring to acids perhaps as "solvents", but as "abrasives"? No. The fairly detailed account of abrasives on Science Direct (https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/ma ... ve-process), for example, refers to the "active abrasive grain" and "intense local stress field").

But if you want to use "abrasive" to refer to things like vinegar and citric acid, then I'll rephrase my question since the distinction is important to me in the context of cleaning my instruments: Does the Slide Doctor Cleaning Polish contain abrasive particles as in the case of Brasso (embedding) or the variety of non-embedding abrasives available on the market (including J&B Bore Cleaning Compound)? Or does it employ only chemical means to "clean" and "polish"? If it does contain abrasive particles, does anyone know what abrasive this is, is it non-embedding, etc?

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:34 am A mild organic acid will not damage these slides unless you do some radical things like soak them for a few days.

I have some personal experience that testifies that simply soaking overnight with household white vinegar can result in some scary (though not permanently damaging) results. The degree and speed of this process depends, of course, on the brass alloy involved.

Ted wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:43 pm $35,- shipping.. That's a lot!

It seems like it, but if you look at the per/ounce cost it appears out to be less than SuperSlick Plus by quite a bit (assuming you'd use comparable amounts for applications lasting similar periods). The cost of the Sealant and the Polish amount to about $12 each for four ounces. So about $3.00/ounce. SuperSlick Plus is about $8.00/ounce.

Unfortunately, the Slide Doctor seems to recommend something like SuperSlick Plus IN ADDITION to the cleaning/coating. And it's not clear how often the cleaning/coating will "need" to be done. Still, it might well be worth that cost if it lasts through several (added) slide lubes with something like the usual lubrication products, and otherwise prevents corrosion and build-up on the slide.

Oh my cookies. It's not a lubricant. It cleans and seals the slide. Even the sealant product removes oxidation and corrosion out of the slide. You still use lube after you use the product. You start with brasso before you even begin using the rest of the product. I have used this product. If you haven't used it, then I don't know how questioning these statements will help you. You've got the wrong idea about what the product does. It's like saying, "even though the product cleans your grill, you STILL have to use propane in your grill for it to work -- CHEAP" Completely nonsensical statement.

It's not a product from some mysterious conglomerate. You can literally call up Ray Splawn and he will tell you the same stuff. Super nice guy. What are we getting hung up on here?

Yet again Harrison has already posted what I was going to say.

It doesn’t cost that much and it works better than anything else I have ever tried and last for months. If you give it a shot you will probably like it. I’ve used this on all my slides for years with no problem. If anything I think it extends the life of the outer slide tubes.

As to how often you need to use the product to clean your slide, it's easily a year or more, depending on how much you play, and if you are still regularly swabbing out the slide with a cleaning rod. If you are still doing regular maintenance, it lasts a looong time.

I'm very interested in this product! Sounds like a perfect addition to my cleaning routine.

Ted wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:43 pm $35,- shipping.. That's a lot!

Same problem here! (Dutch as well) The set is on that expensive. But the $35 is only for the shipping. Per set, so we won't save any money by ordering more sets in one shipment...

aasavickas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:24 am Yet again Harrison has already posted what I was going to say.

It doesn’t cost that much and it works better than anything else I have ever tried and last for months. If you give it a shot you will probably like it. I’ve used this on all my slides for years with no problem. If anything I think it extends the life of the outer slide tubes.

As I read this last point... I'm looking over the edge of my screen at a slide from 1942. How long has this stuff been around? Are we really wearing out outer slide tubes? The only outer tubes I have lost are ones that have had severe damage or bad repair work.

I am intrigued, but I'd like to know more about what it is before trying.

Cheers,
Andy

If you ever had the slide doc repair your slide, this product is a big part of why the slide came back so good.

Bart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:23 am I'm very interested in this product! Sounds like a perfect addition to my cleaning routine.

Ted wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:43 pm $35,- shipping.. That's a lot!

Same problem here! (Dutch as well) The set is on that expensive. But the $35 is only for the shipping. Per set, so we won't save any money by ordering more sets in one shipment...

International shipping (from Georgia, USA) can be expensive. And if one of the components is on a regulated substance list, it can seriously add to the cost. I don't know what's in Great Slide, nor am I familiar with EU regulations on chemicals. So I can't say whether the shipping cost is reasonable or not.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:18 am Oh my cookies. It's not a lubricant.

I like cookies. In what sense is it NOT a lubricant? In the sense that the Slide Doctor chooses not to CALL it a lubricant?
(Not that this really matters to the discussion.)

You start with brasso before you even begin using the rest of the product.

Somehow I missed this. I was hoping the process would avoid using Brasso (which is an embedding abrasive). I can testify to Brasso's effects. I have some concerns about some of them. I won't use Brasso except in the case where I have evidence that there is serious corrosion in the slide. Otherwise, I use a non-embedding abrasive (either J&B Bore Cleaner -- which is a little icky to clean out, or some non-embedding industrial abrasives I have lying around here).

By the way, another thread in this forum says that the Slide Doctor uses Wright's Brass Polish, and NOT Brasso (https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... 571#p64486) What ARE you using?

You do realize that using Brasso (or other polish) on a regular basis with this product is more than a bit like those cereal commercials that say "Used together with a healthy diet ..."?

I have used this product. If you haven't used it, then I don't know how questioning these statements will help you.

Fair enough. But what questioning these statements gets me (which I can't get from calling up the Slide Doctor) is precisely what you're COMPARING it to. Have you, for example, used a similar process (Brasso plus other cleaners, silicone, etc. -- or other things). Or are you just saying "I've used this and it's great." "I've used this and it's great" is a fine positive testimonial, but all it provides is one guy's impression. It's like "I really like this pizza." Okay.

The comparison would provide more (and more valuable) information since it removes some of the subjectivity from the judgment. I use a process similar to what you describe -- but of course without the Slide Doctor magic elixirs. What I'm requesting is whether you've done something similar and how you'd compare the two experiences. If you haven't, then you haven't. That's okay.

What are we getting hung up on here?

Simple questions that aren't quite being answered by some people who actually have experience with the products and yet aren't the seller?

You start with brasso before you even begin using the rest of the product.
Somehow I missed this. I was hoping the process would avoid using Brasso (which is an embedding abrasive). I can testify to Brasso's effects. I have some concerns about some of them. I won't use Brasso except in the case where I have evidence that there is serious corrosion in the slide. Otherwise, I use a non-embedding abrasive (either J&B Bore Cleaner -- which is a little icky to clean out, or some non-embedding industrial abrasives I have lying around here).

The directions on the website actually state to use Wright's Brass polish, not Brasso. WBP is water based and non-abrasive, if I recall correctly.

cigmar wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:24 pm The directions on the website actually state to use Wright's Brass polish, not Brasso. WBP is water based and non-abrasive, if I recall correctly.

Well, that's a HUGE difference. I'm not sure whether WBP is non-abrassive or non-embedding abrasive. I can't find anywhere this is documented. Would love to know for sure.

Well, this actually didn't take too much effort. Don't know how I missed it earlier. It is abrasive: contains Silica (quartz).

https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/t ... 23-015-012

I don't suppose that there's a similar ingredients sheet for the Slide Doctor products?

I just use brasso, since it was available. Works fine. If it was something like grinding the hubble mirrors (which failed, incidentally), I could see it being a huge problem. But removing molecule sized layers of brass from the outer tubes with something wimpy like brasso or wrights (they aren't really that abrasive) seems pretty simple and not all that scary to me.

Also, I suppose if the action of smoothing out a surface and making it impermeable to water is a lubricant, then I'll eat my hat. I had no idea that a process or action counted as a lubricant.

To me, the lubricant is the beaded up water (because that's what the sealant does to water) that acts as ball bearings between the inner and outer slides, and the point of the product is to reduce the area of contact between the metals. But that's just me.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:47 am If you ever had the slide doc repair your slide, this product is a big part of why the slide came back so good.

I have a slide that was worked on by both John U. and later Ray. Even have a letter back from John wondering why I was sending it to him as my work had been sufficient.

Let's just say that I am still skeptical. Slide did come back pretty clean, though.

Cheers,
Andy

I was very skeptical of his work but I traded a friend my Shires slide for his a few years ago while at ATW. His wasn't in as good shape but part of the deal was he'd pay for my slide dr treatment since Ray was at ATW, so we could just drop it off and he'd get it to me a week before the next gig I had on the slide.

When I got it back, turns out the leadpipe was bent so it was causing an alignment issue. Fortunately, I had a spare. Even with that being fixed, I was really, really dissappointed in the way the slide turned out. Was scratchy and worse than when I got it. BUT his note said that there was a lot of... my memory is failing... I want to say oxidation but that might be right. Haven't had coffee yet. At any rate, that I should apply trombotine, wipe it off every, maybe 30 minutes of playing, and then reapply. So I followed the directions meticulously for about 2-3 days. Start of the 4th day I get my horn out for a 7AM rehearsal (yeah, really!). Apply my trombotine just like I had been instructed. WOW. Went from being meh, to like glass. Slide still plays great a few years later.

I went ahead and bought the stuff myself. I've applied it to a few slides and my work isn't as good as his (mostly because I *only* use the teflon and dont' do any alignment, dent stuff, etc.) but it still is, in my estimation, worth it if you have the patience and time to apply it maybe once or twice a year.

You have to be fairly agressive with the product, and agressive with whatever brass polish you use before it. If you are scared of it and polish with your pinky out, it won't be as effective.

But the work Ray does is better than I could ever do hahaha.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:49 pm Also, I suppose if the action of smoothing out a surface and making it impermeable to water is a lubricant, then I'll eat my hat. I had no idea that a process or action counted as a lubricant.

But it's not just a process or action. It's the "sealant" that's left on the surface that's the lubricant. Not the process of putting it there. It's like when a coating of Teflon is put onto a surface. The Teflon is a lubricant -- as in fact Teflon was in the original version of the Slide Doctor products. That process of putting a lubricant on a surface is properly called "lubrication".

To me, the lubricant is the beaded up water (because that's what the sealant does to water) that acts as ball bearings between the inner and outer slides, and the point of the product is to reduce the area of contact between the metals. But that's just me.

Yup, water is a lubricant there too. I think we're actually converging on agreement here.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:32 am

Bart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:23 am I'm very interested in this product! Sounds like a perfect addition to my cleaning routine.
Same problem here! (Dutch as well) The set is on that expensive. But the $35 is only for the shipping. Per set, so we won't save any money by ordering more sets in one shipment...

International shipping (from Georgia, USA) can be expensive. And if one of the components is on a regulated substance list, it can seriously add to the cost. I don't know what's in Great Slide, nor am I familiar with EU regulations on chemicals. So I can't say whether the shipping cost is reasonable or not.

I didn't consider that, thanks, Bruce! I just received a message from Ray: he is able to combine more sets into one shipment. So I'll check who wants a set in the Netherlands and order in one shipment. Ted? Are you still in here?

Having read this tread, I decided to experiment on my king 606. I went to the local auto shop and bought a bottle of
polymer car wax. I poured it into the outer slide tube and used the cleaning rod to work it in.
Result......a 7/10 slide becomes a 9/10 slide !!!

lauriet wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:30 am Having read this tread, I decided to experiment on my king 606. I went to the local auto shop and bought a bottle of
polymer car wax. I poured it into the outer slide tube and used the cleaning rod to work it in.
Result......a 7/10 slide becomes a 9/10 slide !!!

I've done this as well -- after a thorough cleaning -- and I liked the results.
YMMV, of course.

--Andy in OKC