TromboneChat

On my Bb tenor, I think I use the trigger pretty conventionally to play the gap range, smooth out slide movement in the lower end of the horn, and rarely for a trill. But being new to the Eb, it hits me like a unique animal.

Maybe, you’re someone who plays it all on a straight Eb alto. After all, if you’re playing an alto part, ya don’t need a trigger. But sometimes the needs of the music or affordances of a trigger make you wanna pull out the 36H or other factory or custom trigger.

Why do you go for the alto with trigger?
In adddition to filling the gap range, is there another trigger technique you use on alto?
Do you have any special trigger tuning, maybe for a particular piece or context?
At what times might you hang out on the Bb side of the horn?
Did anyone add a trigger to a straight Eb?

The trigger on the 36H has a lot of uses, but when C. Lindberg had Larry Minick put one on his old Minick alto (which eventually turned into the 36H), there were two primary reasons:

1. The trigger allowed for all of the available lip tills of the Eb alto (just like any alto trombone), and almost all of the lip trills available on a Bb tenor. When it is said that the Bb attachment is for trills, it doesn't mean you open and close the valve rapidly and a trill happens. It means that if you can't lip trill because you are too low in the harmonic series of the Eb alto, you can depress the valve and possibly make the trill happen because the same trill is possible higher in the Bb harmonic series. This avoids the issue that comes up when you realize that many of the trills in the four big "alto" trombone "concertos" make a lot more sense on a Bb instrument, but you still want to have something to play on your alto.

2. The valve increases the range of the Eb alto, and the only thing you need to do is listen to the album "Lindberg Unaccompanied" to know why he wanted the extra range, especially on the cello suite.

There are quite a few other uses for the Bb valve:

3. Playing Fs and Es in 1st and second is still way easier and generally easier to tune than in 6th and 7th.

4. You can make the conscious decision to tune sharp and play long on the slide. You haven't lost the E in 7th if you can still play it with the valve.

5. In the third harmonic and lower, "valve trills" could be used sparingly if some other way to make a trill happen is not possible. They don't sound great, unless the context they hapen in is good.

6. Interesting grace note effects are possible in the mid and upper register. Listen to the "dance of the chickens in their shells" movement in Lindberg's version of "Pictures". All of the grace notes are just a quick depress of the valve (or sometimes starting on the Bb side and immediately closing the valve).

That's why I went for the alto with a trigger.

I tune my horn "sharp", so that Eb is pulled off the bumpers and Db is at the bell, and tune the Bb valve to Bb with the handslide completely closed. I'm sure someone really clever could find a use for the A pull, but I don't see the need.

I would never "hang out on the Bb side of the horn" any more than I would do the same for the F side on a Bb tenor. It's not a failsafe.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:14 am
6. Interesting grace note effects are possible in the mid and upper register. Listen to the "dance of the chickens in their shells" movement in Lindberg's version of "Pictures". All of the grace notes are just a quick depress of the valve (or sometimes starting on the Bb side and immediately closing the valve).

That's why I went for the alto with a trigger.

I tune my horn "sharp", so that Eb is pulled off the bumpers and Db is at the bell, and tune the Bb valve to Bb with the handslide completely closed. I'm sure someone really clever could find a use for the A pull, but I don't see the need.

Yes, I see the trigger essential for solo lit. Re-listened to the chickens. I had not thought CL used the trigger on those grace notes, so thanks for that. I tune sharp/play long on my jazz tenor and am trying to do so on alto. Mainly, I like to be able to get a little slide vibrato in 1st and pull up for 1st position 5th partial, but had not thought about doing that for the 7th partial, which I might fake in first as a passing note. So thanks, that's a new one for me.

You're making me want an alto with a Bb attachment, Harrison... those are all excellent reasons to have it. Those low E's and A's in 7th are dangerously close to coming off the slide - actually my horn doesn't really even have a useable 7th at all.

But I have too many instruments already and lately I've been learning my F alto again. Maybe an F with a C attachment...

Another unique benefit to that configuration is that since one is probably intimately familiar with the Bb side, you can use it as a different timbre. The Eb side is usually a little brighter in my experience and the Bb side a little more broad. You can use the Bb side or the Eb side as horn players do to some degree to color what you're playing.

I'm actually adding a rotor to my Wessex at the moment. Really excited to see how that project ends up. I was originally hoping for a compact tenor but the bell section is way too small (identical to the Jin Bao models other than the width of the tuning slide as it turns out). But I'm kind of happy about that too because it is a nice color and a really fun instrument to play with the Bb. The A & E are horrible on it too. There's a tremendous irony that I have too short of arms to play 7th and my alto has too short a slide to play 7th even though I can actually reach it!

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:58 pm You're making me want an alto with a Bb attachment, Harrison... those are all excellent reasons to have it. Those low E's and A's in 7th are dangerously close to coming off the slide - actually my horn doesn't really even have a useable 7th at all.

But I have too many instruments already and lately I've been learning my F alto again. Maybe an F with a C attachment...

If I recall, you had the Slokar alto. They make it with a Bb valve too!

I know. Costs a lot.

I have never found a real use for the A pull on my 36H. I guess it would be necessary if I need a low E, but these are pretty uncommon even on tenor parts.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:53 pm I have never found a real use for the A pull on my 36H. I guess it would be necessary if I need a low E, but these are pretty uncommon even on tenor parts.

For example, the Motorbike Concerto has you pull the F attachment to E and play the entire cadenza on the E horn (it's a series of horn rips). That sort of weird thing, maybe.

What I need is a super secret way of getting an alto trombone (I want one)

Yikes!!

https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-rath-e ... e-and.html

sterb225 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:06 am Yikes!!

https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-rath-e ... e-and.html

Wow that's actually an insanely cheap price for that. Comes with 2 valves a gooseneck, and a cronkhite case!! hat's easily $6k worth of stuff if not more!

Tetraphosphate wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:16 am What I need is a super secret way of getting an alto trombone (I want one)

https://www.hornguys.com/collections/al ... trombone-1

That's what a lot of people start on. Wessex used to have one but it's not on their site any more.

Note that tetraphosphate is in New Zealand and shipping for her is going to be pricey from the US.

Tetraphosphate, have you a good reason to need an alto trombone? I would doubt you will find any parts for it in your school band repertoire. It will require learning a whole new set of positions. If you are still in the learning phase, it will take valuable time away from learning tenor trombone, which is what we (mostly) all play.

An alto is not a toy and is not easy to switch from like going from tenor sax to alto sax.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:19 am

Tetraphosphate wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:16 am What I need is a super secret way of getting an alto trombone (I want one)

https://www.hornguys.com/collections/al ... trombone-1

That's what a lot of people start on. Wessex used to have one but it's not on their site any more.

Yeah, Wessex only offers their 525/547 although I don't even see that on their website anymore. If its the same model as I have, the bell sections are largely identical with the exception of the width of the tuning slide width. Goes from around 550 bore in the receiver all the way to the tuning slide bow. Unless they did something special with the bell too, it has the same dimensions as the Jin Bao linked here. The result works surprisingly well to be honest. It's a really open instrument but still sounds quite like an alto to my ears. I'm working on getting a large shank receiver for it as well to see what that does to the sound as well.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:50 am Note that tetraphosphate is in New Zealand and shipping for her is going to be pricey from the US.

Tetraphosphate, have you a good reason to need an alto trombone? I would doubt you will find any parts for it in your school band repertoire. It will require learning a whole new set of positions. If you are still in the learning phase, it will take valuable time away from learning tenor trombone, which is what we (mostly) all play.

An alto is not a toy and is not easy to switch from like going from tenor sax to alto sax.

No, not really. Perhaps sticking to tenor might be better