TromboneChat

Hey Y'all,

My jazz teacher told me I should have an arsenal of favorite improv jazz musicians so that I could copy their style and actually be good, but I'm too lazy to find them on my own. If you can, can you provide me with some names of improv musicians so that I could develop my arsenal and prepare for a world war of social interaction?

Yes,
talentedtrombone

We can't tell you what you will like...

https://www.google.com/search?q=top+jaz ... yer+videos

It will be far more meaningful to you, if you make time to look and listen.

--Andy in OKC

First, let me say this: lazy and jazz don't really go together.

In any case, there are countless dozens of players that will amaze you. Here are five that I particularly like.

JJ Johnson
Steve Turre
Frank Rosolino
Al Grey
Wayne Wallace

Listen, lots! By all means, take some of the suggestions here as a jumping off point, but it’s up to you to put the work in. Listen to everything you can get your hands on, in this age of YouTube and digital music that should be very easy. It’s surprising how quickly you can lose track of an afternoon following “rabbit holes” of one video after another of great jazz trombonists on YouTube and other video sites.

Once you have a good feel for some artists whose sound you appreciate, pick your favorite tune of theirs and transcribe the improvisations. Once you’ve got that solo transcribed note for note, then transpose it into the other 11 keys. By that time you should have the tune and the solo memorized, and knowing it in any key will make you a stronger player. Then, choose another tune and repeat. You’ll be surprised how some of those licks start to creep into your own improvisations.

My answer to the original question? Urbie Green and George Roberts, for improv and style/sound

Some of my favorites, specific to jazz improv:

Jack Teagarden
Carl Fontana
Frank Rosolino
John Allred
Scott Whitfield
John Fedchock

Tons of different styles. Harry Waters, Wycliffe Gordon, JJ Johnson, Kai Winding, Teagarden, Urbie Green, Bill Watrous.

Start with ONE big name you like. It's easy to get overwhelmed and too spread out trying to listen and copy too many different styles.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:15 am Tons of different styles. Harry Waters, Wycliffe Gordon, JJ Johnson, Kai Winding, Teagarden, Urbie Green, Bill Watrous.

Man, Wycliffe Gordon is great!

Yes, but Wycliffe is not necessarily the best choice as a first one to listen and copy. It's a good idea to go back and listen to who HE listened to. And others.

Start with JJ Johnson. Go in either direction (earlier/later) from there.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:19 pm Yes, but Wycliffe is not necessarily the best choice as a first one to listen and copy. It's a good idea to go back and listen to who HE listened to. And others.

Interesting suggestion

For newly approaching the craft? Andy Martin. It's easy to listen to, easily approachable, and you can watch videos of him playing to help with the transcriptions.

JJ Johnson
Scott Whitfield
Carl Fontana
Frank Rosolino

You Tube is your friend if you have a way to use it. Even if its on your phone. It's also a good idea to listen to their best solos over and over. Get in their mind and try to understand what they were trying to accomplish. Transcribed solos are good to look at while your listening as well as just the chord changes when trying to understand the technical aspects of each solo.

Jazz improv has a language and that language is unique for every player. Develop your own language.

All names mentioned before, plus Jim Pugh.

If you are on Facebook, check out the WDR Big Band’s website. Their bass trombonist, Mattis Cederberb is laying down the most insane bass trombone improvisation I ever heard.

Steve Davis
Nils Landgren
Fred Wesley

...are some of my faves

Lots of tips you got there. The absolute best is from Doug. Follow that.

RustBeltBass wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:55 am All names mentioned before, plus Jim Pugh.

If you are on Facebook, check out the WDR Big Band’s website. Their bass trombonist, Mattis Cederberb is laying down the most insane bass trombone improvisation I ever heard.

Mattis is a great talent. Great on tuba, cimbasso and bass trombone. His arrangements/compositions are just fun to listen to.

Andy Martin and Bob McChesney!

I guess it depends on the style/s of jazz you follow. However, for 'hot' jazz, in my opinion:

John Allred (1962)
Ray Anderson (1952)
David Baker (1931-2016)
Chris Barber (1930)
Bob Brookmeyer (valve trombone), (1929-2011)
Lawrence Brown (1907–1988)
George Brunies (1902–1974)
George Chisholm (1915–1997)
Jimmy Cleveland (1926-2008)
Cutty Cutshall (1911-1968)
Willie Dennis (1926-1965)
Vic Dickenson (1906–1984)
Tommy Dorsey (1905–1956)
Edwin "Daddy" Edwards (1891-1963)
Bob Envoldson (1920-2005)
Carl Fontana (1928–2003)
Curtis Fuller (1934)
Tyree Glenn (1912-1974)
Brad Gowans (1903-1954)
Bennie Green (1923–1977)
Urbie Green (1928)
Al Grey (1925–2000)
Slide Hampton (1932)
Bill Harris (1916–1973)
Bob Havens (1930)
J. C. Higginbotham (1906–1973)
Pee Wee Hunt (1907–1979)
Jack Jenny (1910-1945)
J. J. Johnson (1924–2001)
Jimmy Knepper (1927–2003)
Don Lusher (1923-2006)
George Masso (1926)
Lou McGarity (1917-1971)
Glenn Miller (1904–1944)
Miff Mole (1898–1961)
Benny Morton (1907-1985)
Turk Murphy (1915-1987)
Tricky Sam Nanton (1904–1946)
Louis Nelson (1902-1990)
Dick Nash (1928)
Kid Ory (1886–1973)
Jim Robinson (1892-1976)
Frank Rosolino (1926-1978)
Jack Teagarden (1905–1964)
Juan Tizol (valve trombone) (1900–1984)
Bill Watrous (1939)
Dicky Wells (1907–1985)
Roy Williams (1937)
Phil Wilson (1937)
Kai Winding (1922–1983)
Britt Woodman (1920-2000)
Trummy Young (1912-1984)

You might think that a few on the list are more 'cool' than 'hot', but rest assured that they can play 'hot' when the circumstances call for it.

That's quite a list.
You can add 2018 to Bill Watrous now.

Great list!

A few favs I haven’t seen mentioned yet:

Marshall Gilkes
Luis Bonilla
Doug Beavers
Bill Reichenbach
Robin Eubanks
Steve Turre
John Gove
Curtis Fowlkes
Bruce Fowler
Albert Mangelsdorf
Jiggs Wigham
Nils Landgren
Dennis Rollins
Michael Dease
Michael Davis
Frank Lacy
David Gibson
Francisco Torres

ENJOY THE JOURNEY!!!

Grah wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:20 pm I guess it depends on the style/s of jazz you follow. However, for 'hot' jazz, in my opinion:

John Allred (1962)
Ray Anderson (1952)
David Baker (1931-2016)
Chris Barber (1930)
Bob Brookmeyer (valve trombone), (1929-2011)
Lawrence Brown (1907–1988)
George Brunies (1902–1974)
George Chisholm (1915–1997)
Jimmy Cleveland (1926-2008)
Cutty Cutshall (1911-1968)
Willie Dennis (1926-1965)
Vic Dickenson (1906–1984)
Tommy Dorsey (1905–1956)
Edwin "Daddy" Edwards (1891-1963)
Bob Envoldson (1920-2005)
Carl Fontana (1928–2003)
Curtis Fuller (1934)
Tyree Glenn (1912-1974)
Brad Gowans (1903-1954)
Bennie Green (1923–1977)
Urbie Green (1928)
Al Grey (1925–2000)
Slide Hampton (1932)
Bill Harris (1916–1973)
Bob Havens (1930)
J. C. Higginbotham (1906–1973)
Pee Wee Hunt (1907–1979)
Jack Jenny (1910-1945)
J. J. Johnson (1924–2001)
Jimmy Knepper (1927–2003)
Don Lusher (1923-2006)
George Masso (1926)
Lou McGarity (1917-1971)
Glenn Miller (1904–1944)
Miff Mole (1898–1961)
Benny Morton (1907-1985)
Turk Murphy (1915-1987)
Tricky Sam Nanton (1904–1946)
Louis Nelson (1902-1990)
Dick Nash (1928)
Kid Ory (1886–1973)
Jim Robinson (1892-1976)
Frank Rosolino (1926-1978)
Jack Teagarden (1905–1964)
Juan Tizol (valve trombone) (1900–1984)
Bill Watrous (1939)
Dicky Wells (1907–1985)
Roy Williams (1937)
Phil Wilson (1937)
Kai Winding (1922–1983)
Britt Woodman (1920-2000)
Trummy Young (1912-1984)

You might think that a few on the list are more 'cool' than 'hot', but rest assured that they can play 'hot' when the circumstances call for it.

No love shown yet for.......

Mark Nightingale
Elliot Mason
Nils Wogram
Andy Hunter

Taking Trombone Jazz to another level IMHO

Also check out young lions.......

Robinson Khoury
Alistair White
Klaus Heidenreich

I was in a similar situation excepted I was not lazy but don't know who discovered new trombonists names.

Best thing that help me is to go to YouTube tip the name of a jazz standard and add trombone like ''summertime trombone'' or ''bye bye blackbird trombone'' and then look into the right column, and so on, and so on, you got to discovered lots of new players

Oh there are so manny... Start with just one, I think Jack Teagarden is a good one, very musical and not too technical, Listen to lots of tunes, pick one and listen to that tune manny manny times. Start to copy. When you learn one solo you came a long way. Don´t be lazy.

Among well-known, living trombone players who always surprise, amaze, and play fresh ideas without ever sounding like they're copying anybody else, I really dig: (in no particular order)

Ed Neumeister
Mark Nightingale
Bruce Fowler
Glenn Ferris
Birch Johnson (seldom heard, sadly)
John Mosca
Ian McDougall
Jim Pugh
Conrad Herwig
...and this is leaving out so, so many other great soloists...many unknown to the public from all over the place!

Cmillar wrote: ↑Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:33 pm ...
...and this is leaving out so, so many other great soloists...many unknown to the public from all over the place!

Juan Pablo Torres is a good example. Sooooo good and so few people know about him!

Give everyone a chance, just to hear as much as possible and know what they're about.

Then when it's time to decide who to study or emulate, time to pick a favorite, pick whoever resonates with you, not whoever seems to be the "right" or "popular" choice.

This is a highly subjective thing. For every great player I have heard and loved, I can name 5 people (but I won't ) who say that player is overrated or even "garbage." For every player I've ever heard who turned me off, I've met dozens of people who'd say that player was their absolute favorite. It actually says more about the listener than the player. It's more of an indication of what they're into musically (most of the time.)

Sometimes, though, there seem to be "right" and "wrong" answers. People will make you feel like you're supposed to like this player or that one. Don't let them. Try to be honest with yourself, know what you like and why, and stick to that.

Here’s another way to revisit the idea of entering into jazz influences and improvising. What was your first trombone solo to transcribe?
My first transcription success full transcription and play along was with Curtis Fuller. It is important to have a earlier success with transcribing so you can build that as a habit and technique.


This original post started with straight ahead, bop, and post bop stars, and Frank Rossolino is my number one, But I got my start with earlier Jazz, here’s some first influencing listening:
Jack Teagarden, and great vocalist, too. You might know him from Armstrong Bamds and Basin Street Blues, but Great approach to ballads.


Of course, I too I was directed to JJ Johnson. Great influence on my sound Concept. My teacher said “JJ composed/wrote out solos, so you can too as a way to build your understanding and confidence.”Even today, I draw on the idea of a solo having a composed sensibility or structure, using motifs, even when I’m playing more free jazz or in the moment.

Bob Brookmeyer, especially with Gerry Mulligan ( bari sax) in Gerry’s piano-less quartet unless Bob played piano. Some Paris recording are very good. I also play valve bone so hearing this added to my understanding of Juan Tizol who was not a major improviser but had a few notable valve bone feature lines.


If we’re making a list of every player, we cad add others. You may not emulate each one, but all have an offering. Trombone listening is a smorgasbord
TRummy Young of the Armstrong and Lunceford bands, so a lot of Dixieland and classic swing. Vocals on hit Margie.. I took from him the little lip trill technique.

Big Chief Russell Moore, great story, along with Teagarden a noteworthy native North American Jazzer. If you don’t know how to get a plunger stop on trombone see the video and note the essential hole in the plunger.

Julien Priester, who I find kind of inconsistent, but hand some great groups and changed with the times into fusion styled

Melba Liston, trombone composer arranger. She also had a album with heavy hitters like Urbie and Slide.

Frank Rehak. Folks forget his art.

Don't limit yourself by only listening to trombonists. Andy martin used to transcribe and play Clifford Brown solos.
Listen to EVERYONE. Put in the effort.
Charlie Parker
Red Rodney
Sam Noto
Gerry Mulligan
Oscar Peterson
Art Tatum
Miles Davis
John Coltrane
etc.

Carl Fontana!
Amazing doodle tongue ability, and he could slip into playing traditional jazz without changing his style.
solo at 2:00

I enjoy listening to James Morrison.

talentedtrombone wrote: ↑Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:10 pm Hey Y'all,

My jazz teacher told me I should have an arsenal of favorite improv jazz musicians so that I could copy their style and actually be good, but I'm too lazy to find them on my own. If you can, can you provide me with some names of improv musicians so that I could develop my arsenal and prepare for a world war of social interaction?

Yes,
talentedtrombone

Why do they have to be trombone players?

"...too lazy to find them on my own..."
Being honest here, it sounds like you might not be motivated to do this if you're too lazy to go to Youtube and search for "jazz trombone" and start watching videos. This might be something to discuss with your teacher.

This is how I learned about the music.

https://folkways.si.edu/jazz-the-smiths ... mithsonian

All of the above are true masters.

After you've checked all of those cats out, I would advise you to listen to other musicians. In fact, why not listen to whatever your ears tell you to check out? Maybe your brain is trying to push you in a certain direction. Maybe your ears will help you figure out your artistic voice, if you let them.

"Jazz trombone" isn't a biome, separated from the rest of jazz. It can be if we want it to be, but the other instruments aren't separated from each other by a specific repertoire. Piano players steal ideas from saxophone players, saxophone players steal from trumpet players, trombone players steal from trumpet players, etc. In classical/20th century European/American art music trombone, there are separate rules for each instrument. In jazz/modern music, there aren't. The same rules apply to every instrument.

You can learn just as much from Dexter Gordon and Sonny Rollins as you can from Frank Rosolino and Al Grey. If you love music, then you should have no problem listening to everything you can get your hands on. All of those ideas can be played on the trombone.

I like a lot of jazz players but these trombone players always make my attention when the play.

George Roberts (but he might not count as a real jazz musician?)
J.J. Johnson.
Bill Watrous.
Urbie Green.

Leif (thats just my signature, not a jazz player )

My favorites to listen too are Urbie Green, Frank Rosolino, JJ Johnson, Bill Watrous, Carl Fontana, Slide Hampton, Jimmy Cleveland Curtis Fuller, Jiggs Whigham, Jack Teagarden,Trummy Young, Phil Wilson, Conrad Herwig, Andy Martin, Harry Watters, Scott Whitfield, John Allred, Wycliffe Gordon, Al Grey, Steve Turre, Ray Anderson, Ira Nepus,Jim Pugh,Marshall Gikes. In the UK George Chisholm, Roy Williams, Mark Nightingale, Alastair White, Robbie Harvey, Ian Bateman, Other countries James Morrison, Bart Van Lier, Eijiro Nakagowa, Raul de Souza, Albert Mangelsdorff,Nils Landgren, Massimo Pirone, For someone learning jazz improvisation I was told by the late Pete Strange to buy the Lp Vic Dickinson plays Bessie Smith and try to play along with that to learn the blues and develop your ear

I would also add:
Bennie Green
Garnett Brown
Craig Harris
Clifford Adams
Ku-umba Frank Lacy
Douglas Purviance (bass)
Jason Jackson
Stafford Hunter
Rick Parker
Nick Finzer
Robert Edwards
James Burton III
Jimmy Cleveland (I’m guessing someone already mentioned him)
Josh Roseman
Steve Swell
Art Baron
Issac Smith
Vincent Chandler
Vincent Gardner
Elliot Mason
Andre Hayward
Grachan Moncur III
Mitch Butler
Cornell McGhee
Ron Wilkins
and many more.

Great list!

bonafide wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:12 pm I would also add:
Bennie Green
Garnett Brown
Craig Harris
Clifford Adams
Ku-umba Frank Lacy
Douglas Purviance (bass)
Jason Jackson
Stafford Hunter
Rick Parker
Nick Finzer
Robert Edwards
James Burton III
Jimmy Cleveland (I’m guessing someone already mentioned him)
Josh Roseman
Steve Swell
Art Baron
Issac Smith
Vincent Chandler
Vincent Gardner
Elliot Mason
Andre Hayward
Grachan Moncur III
Mitch Butler
Cornell McGhee
Ron Wilkins
and many more.

Mike Davis and Bill Reichenbach.
Check out “Bone Town”.
Still one of my favorite recordings.

A great collection here, in this thread, and it's great to see some of my less-known favourites, like Frank Rehak and Bennie Green. I'll mention a few more trombone players that have been skipped over but have something unusual or special to offer:

Max Seigel (for fluid bebop in the bass trombone register)
Samuel Blaser
Ron Westray
Ake Persson
Chris Crenshaw
Gunhild Carling
Al (Alastair) Kay
Rob McConnell (valve)

Bennie Green, mentioned a few times is a great one to start with transcribing. I did not see Hal Crook on anyone's list, but he has a great command of the instrument and a different vocabulary than most. My all time favorite is Carl Fontana.

Hal Crook! Definitely should have been on this list.

Yeah like everyone said you GOTTA listen to JJ Johnson and Curtis Fuller.

Also the original guys like Kid Ory and Vic Dickenson

THEN Slide Hampton and on. Bill, Fontana, and Rosolino are AMAZING, not necessarily in my vein though.

Contemporary guys definitely Elliot Mason, Michael Dease, and COREY WILCOX!

Besides all the names mentioned, lately I've been digging these 2 monsters.
Vincent Gardner
Tom Garling (from his Maynard Ferguson days)

Probably not technically on the "Improv List", but the more I listen to the Buddy Morrow band, the more I respect what he had achieved in orchestration, arrangement, big band sound and his own playing.

I did mention in my previous post that the style of jazz you wish to play should influence your arsenal. But one aspect of improvisation has not been mentioned and I am interested to hear listmate's opinions? I am referring to the style adopted by different trombone players in the Dixieland Ensemble, which style of improvisation takes up a large part of my playing time.

My observation is that pioneer Kid Ory is perhaps still the biggest influence on Dixieland trombone ensemble playing. The next radical change was Jack Teagarden. But there many others that I like a lot, including a few Brits - Who wouldn't like to play an Dixieland ensemble like Roy Williams?

I am an old feller and it is perhaps too late for me to be influenced a great deal, but I am interested to know the recommendation of list mates to younger people who want to play Dixieland?

Grah wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:16 pm I did mention in my previous post that the style of jazz you wish to play should influence your arsenal. But one aspect of improvisation has not been mentioned and I am interested to hear listmate's opinions? I am referring to the style adopted by different trombone players in the Dixieland Ensemble, which style of improvisation takes up a large part of my playing time.

My observation is that pioneer Kid Ory is perhaps still the biggest influence on Dixieland trombone ensemble playing. The next radical change was Jack Teagarden. But there many others that I like a lot, including a few Brits - Who wouldn't like to play an Dixieland ensemble like Roy Williams?

I am an old feller and it is perhaps too late for me to be influenced a great deal, but I am interested to know the recommendation of list mates to younger people who want to play Dixieland?

My biggest beef with many "Dixieland" (a terribly outdated term, btw) groups that are playing out today is that I feel that many of these players intentionally play in a contrived style - an intentionally corny imitation of a player like Ory (who I'm NOT calling contrived or corny), because it "sounds" old timey. At best it's cute but nothing more, at worst it's an insulting dismissal of what truly makes early jazz so great and revolutionary.

When I listen to Louis Armstrong's band from the 50's and 60's, I don't hear "old timey", I don't hear "corny". I just hear fresh, raw and energetic music played by the innovators themselves. Trummy Young, Teagarden, Tyree Glenn, JC Higgenbotham, never sound old, and they are influenced by Ory, but are not imitators. Even when they're playing old tunes. That's what's missing from many of these circles outside of New Orleans today, IMO, with the exception of many of the phenomenal bands you hear in NYC.

Miff Mole - forgotten about now but in the 20's he was The player people listened too and copied.

Jack Teagarden his arrival in NY in 1928 moved jazz into a more blues way of playing and away from Miff

Jack Jenny. Outstanding jazz player of the bigband era

Then you are into. Urbie, Kai, JJ , Bill Watrous, Carl, Frank, Tricky Sam, and many more

Happened on this thread and although I saw other instrumentalists mentioned, I didn't see any vocalists.

My advice: play along with Sinatra records. Try to match his inflection, phrasing, etc. It can't be beat. Plus, you learn the words to all those standards. This helps interpretation and memory both. You gotta know tunes to be a jazz player. Lots of them. Knowing the words makes it that much easier to memorize the tunes.

Obviously, other singers are great too. But I like the Doug Elliott's advice, stretched to a couple different instruments. My picks would be JJ for trombone, Coleman Hawkins or Lester Young for tenor, Miles for trumpet, and Sinatra for vocals. Stick with those four in the practice room for a year or so to play along with, transcribe, analyze, transpose in all 12 keys, while at the same time, outside the practice room, listen to anything/everything else you can get your hands on including all those listed above with the addition of vocalists too. After all that studying and listening, you'll know who to study next and it will be easier to take what you've learned from the intense study of a few people and adapt it to other styles.

Also, when you're studying a particular performance of a tune, try transcribing and playing the bass lines (8va usually). Gives you new perspective on the changes, harmony, leading tones, etc. Playing with Sinatra gets the the melody and lyrics in your ears, bass transcriptions give you the harmony. Also gets you used to listening down there and thinking of your solos in contrapuntal terms, as a conversation with the whole group and not just a chance to blow your own ego for a few bars. The piano-less Mulligan groups mentioned about are fantastic to hear this conversation in action.