TromboneChat

Can forum members tell me what years the Conn 88H featured a Remington taper leadpipe? Thanks!

They still all do, but the 88H had its soldered Remington leadpipe from 1954 to the early 90s. I believe that's from Elkhart (1954-70) to Abilene (1970-86) to Eastlake (1986-2016; they were moved to the Bach Elkhart factory early this year). Then in the 90s UMI redesigned the 88H with the new "modernizations" (soldered rim, optional 9" bell, optional open wrap, optional yellow brass, CL2000 valve) and 3 removable threaded leadpipes. There's the regular Gen II leadpipe in Morse, a Remington version of the standard one, and a more open version of the standard one, still in Morse.

That's all I know. I'm pretty sure UMI produced 88Hs in the vein of the Abilene ones at Eastlake until they released the Gen II, but I have no idea.

Here's my observation (and why I posted the question): I noticed on an old Conn 70H bass trombone there was significant "wobble" with a standard (Morse?) taper mouthpiece.  I presume the 70H was manufactured to use with a "Remington" tapered shank mouthpiece. There is much less "wobble" on my 1967 Conn 88H with a standard large shank mouthpiece but a slight amount nonetheless. A mouthpiece made with a "Remington" shank fits tightly, but seems to stick out farther. I'm just trying to understand what Conn was doing during this time period regarding leadpipe tapers and what mouthpiece shank would be correct. (I hope that's the right terminology.)

I think Conn was using that taper in some of their Bass Trombones before the 88H was being produced - the 8H precedes the 88H as well, and I think that horn had this taper fairly early in it's life. I bet the dates of horns using this taper is something that Noah from the Brassark knows about- he's a collector of old Conns.

By the way, someone else will have the correct term, but "Remington" is not the name for that taper. It's associated with him because he had so much to do with the design and prevalence of the 88H, but I don't think he had anything to do with designing that taper for mouthpiece receivers - pretty sure Conn was already using it for some instruments. Even Conn eventually started using his name in association with it more recently, esp. since they were still making Remington mouthpieces with that longer shank.

Jim Scott

As a fellow owner of an old 70H (mine is from 1947), yes, you will need a different shank for the mouthpiece to fit properly. Forum member Doug Elliot produces one for his line of mouthpieces. Many other makers can make one custom (i.e. I usually play Pickett and for $10 more than their regular pieces, they are currently making a Conn shank version of what I play now... once that is done in a few weeks I'll be selling a Conn Shank Doug Elliot in classifieds here).

I have never hear that taper called anything other than Remington/Conn...

That taper is a 'Brown and Sharp'.... no such thing as a 'Remington' taper. Used by Conn since at least the 1920's.

Chris Stearn

Quote from: blast on Nov 11, 2016, 02:09PMThat taper is a 'Brown and Sharp'.... no such thing as a 'Remington' taper. Used by Conn since at least the 1920's.

Chris Stearn


 

For what it's worth, Conn produced a mouthpiece called 3B with the Brown and Sharpe taper to be used with the bass trombones.

Bach offered mouthpieces with this shank.  I used to have a 5G-R that I sold to a Conn 88H player (she loves it).  They were special order, but exist.

"Brown and Sharp" = the "R" leadpipe?

This is the leadpipe taper that ships with 88Hs to fit "R"emington mouthpieces. Who knew?

 

Only a machinist would actually care, but the Conn taper is NOT a Brown & Sharpe, that's a different amount of taper.  I think there's an official name for it but I can't remember what it is.

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Nov 11, 2016, 07:16PMOnly a machinist would actually care, but the Conn taper is NOT a Brown & Sharpe, that's a different amount of taper.  I think there's an official name for it but I can't remember what it is.


Okay, you are the expert Doug. Between the wars and in some cases after, makers seemed to offer different tapers and pipe opening widths... early Conn were different, Olds and King did their own thing and the Holton 169, 185 and 180 had, through periods of production, different tapers. Very confusing. In modern times it seems that a standardisation to Morse has come about.

Chris Stearn

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Nov 11, 2016, 07:16PMOnly a machinist would actually care, but the Conn taper is NOT a Brown & Sharpe, that's a different amount of taper.  I think there's an official name for it but I can't remember what it is.


Okay, you are the expert Doug. Between the wars and in some cases after, makers seemed to offer different tapers and pipe opening widths... early Conn were different, Olds and King did their own thing and the Holton 169, 185 and 180 had, through periods of production, different tapers. Very confusing. In modern times it seems that a standardisation to Morse has come about.

Chris Stearn