TromboneChat

What ergonomic support, hand grip or other aid have been most useful for you when marching with the bass trombone? I really like my Sheridan get-a-grip, but it is also kind of in the way while shifting notes, and could be lost along the way, so I would like to check for other options.

I use a strap.

I have an older King 7B which lets me put the bell brace between thumb and forefinger. A lot of folks seem not to like this arrangement, but it works great for me. Want something like it? Shires bar, bullet brace, or the like.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:40 am I use a strap.

That you made, or something that can be bought?

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:50 am I have an older King 7B which lets me put the bell brace between thumb and forefinger. A lot of folks seem not to like this arrangement, but it works great for me. Want something like it? Shires bar, bullet brace, or the like.

Do you think you could provide a picture? English is not my first language, and I am not sure I fully understand what you mean.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:09 am https://lscoguard.com/products/trombone-holding-strap

Interesting! It looks pretty solid, but also like your left hand is kind of stuck? I imagine it has to be pretty tight around the hand to be really useful, and I don´t think I could change notes with just the right hand. Now I must try!

It's more flexible than many of the other options.

Just don't march bass. Put your bass mouthpiece in a large tenor.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 11:56 am Just don't march bass. Put your bass mouthpiece in a large tenor.

No.

Falin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:59 am

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:50 am I have an older King 7B which lets me put the bell brace between thumb and forefinger. A lot of folks seem not to like this arrangement, but it works great for me. Want something like it? Shires bar, bullet brace, or the like.

Do you think you could provide a picture? English is not my first language, and I am not sure I fully understand what you mean.

This is me holding my King 7B

Falin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 12:51 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 11:56 am Just don't march bass. Put your bass mouthpiece in a large tenor.

No.

Ha ha ha. History repeats itself.

From an old thread:

Falin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:39 am

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:19 am First, ditch the Conn 88H for marching.
...

I actually like marching with my 88H, and I have done it since -95 without damaging it at all.
...

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:12 pm

Falin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 12:51 pm

No.

Ha ha ha. History repeats itself.

From an old thread:

Falin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:39 am

I actually like marching with my 88H, and I have done it since -95 without damaging it at all.
...

And now that I finally got one I am planning on marching with the bass bone for the next 30 years!
I don´t know what it is with people and this no marching-business...

Harder to hold, less projection, no one in the audience will know the difference, almost no marching parts requiring the instrument, easier to break during horns up because there are more valve knuckles....

There are actual reasons, it's not just a bias. But I second the strap Aidan mentioned, if you must march with one. I use it all the time on bass.

Just to clarify...

What sort of marching are you doing? The needs of someone marching in a military band are quite different from someone marching in a show band that does a lot of choreography.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 11:56 am Just don't march bass. Put your bass mouthpiece in a large tenor.

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:31 pm What sort of marching are you doing?

If he's been marching since '95, it's some sort of adult activity. Strolling down the street, NOT like a regimented marching band, maybe?

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 3:16 pm

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:31 pm What sort of marching are you doing?

If he's been marching since '95, it's some sort of adult activity. Strolling down the street, NOT like a regimented marching band, maybe?

Agreed that most marching situations one is likely to encounter as an adult are "low intensity" (for lack of a better term), but I have seen a few marching show bands with "mature" members. I do horn choreography (with a bass trombone) whenever I play with my college alumni band.

It's also possible the OP is involved with some sort of high-energy marching style that we're not familiar with (there was a mention of English not being a primary language).

If the OP is in a Carneval or Fasnacht band (Celebrating the equivalent of Mardi Gras in German or Italian Europe) there won't be much "snap-to" choreography. FWIW I marched in an American Legion band with a Conn 79H and had no problems. Then again, we were just straight marching at around q=108; no fancy stuff. I played 3rd trombone parts, and once had to cover the tuba line.

I‘ve marched with a bass quite a bit in British brass bands and ‚Musikverein‘ bands in Germany. I like the sound of the bass trombone parping away at the front of the march. Just look up „Whit Friday Marches“ on YouTube, it’s a highlight in the British bass trombonist‘s calendar.

I quite like my caldergrip for marching, it gives some support but doesn‘t feel too restrictive. I tried a single valve bass to save weight but found that quite a few low Cs pop up and I have a hard enough time keeping in step without contorting my body to reach long the low C.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:31 pm Harder to hold, less projection, no one in the audience will know the difference, almost no marching parts requiring the instrument, easier to break during horns up because there are more valve knuckles....

There are actual reasons, it's not just a bias. But I second the strap Aidan mentioned, if you must march with one. I use it all the time on bass.

Harder to hold, definitely, that is why I started this thread. The rest of the reasons I don´t agree with at all. I am sure that is your experience, but not mine.

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:31 pm Just to clarify...

What sort of marching are you doing? The needs of someone marching in a military band are quite different from someone marching in a show band that does a lot of choreography.

Not that it really matters, since my question wasn´t if it was appropriate to march with a bass trombone, but it is mostly military band.

So, I'm not sure what kind of military marching you are doing, but a lot of military bands will have a movement to the "at ease" position, where you move the horn to rest with the slide on the ground and hold the bell near the tuning slide with both hands. For me, using the strap for bass (or any grip assister) makes this movement impossible to do correctly. You need to take a second to get the strap off your hand and it's not smooth.

I'm not sure if your band does this movement, but if they do, the strap might be out.

A cheap one valve bass trombone like a used YBL 321, 322 or 421 will probably do the marching job just fine. If in doubt, put those pesky C and B under the staff just an octave up and let it for the tubas to fill the void.

Advantage is less weight, cheaper if damaged, and less valve and position thinking when you need to focus on your marching moves.

Its a win win

I tend to use a Neotech when I march bass. I've been marching with an independent tru-bore Shires setup with the Navy. It does take a bit of trial and error to make motions smooth with it, but the rigidity of this grip makes it easier than with a strap like the one suggested above in my opinion.

https://neotechstraps.com/products/trombone-ultra-grip

JameyMorgan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 4:51 pm I've been marching with an independent tru-bore Shires setup with the Navy.

I've never seen a marching trombone part that needed any valve. But that was as a student, and 30 years ago. What does a modern Navy bass part look like?

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 6:03 pm

JameyMorgan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 4:51 pm I've been marching with an independent tru-bore Shires setup with the Navy.

I've never seen a marching trombone part that needed any valve. But that was as a student, and 30 years ago. What does a modern Navy bass part look like?

Anything we take on the march could absolutely be played on a tenor, but I like (and have been encouraged) to take some of the written parts down an octave. Some other newer arrangements made by some of my colleagues also go down into the valve register, and I like the ergonomics of the Gb valve for those admittedly limited use cases.

I'm really not trying to be smart when I ask this, but when I saw the thread title, "Bass bone and marching," my first though was, "Why?" There really isn't any marching literature requiring a bass trombone, at least that I'm aware of. And why carry any more weight than you have to?

Two of us on the forum do bass trombone marching professionally... it's definitely a thing.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:08 pm Two of us on the forum do bass trombone marching professionally... it's definitely a thing.

Disneyland, I presume? Not such a "normal" gig, but no question that that's what you get paid to do.

I don't think I've ever seen a traditional street march by an American composer with a bass trombone part, but some British marches (e.g., Army of the Nile and Great Little Army by Kenneth Alford) have third trombone parts that go down into the trigger register; not surprising, as British military bands in Alford's time would have used a G bass on the third trombone part.

tbdana wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 6:27 pm I'm really not trying to be smart when I ask this, but when I saw the thread title, "Bass bone and marching," my first though was, "Why?" There really isn't any marching literature requiring a bass trombone, at least that I'm aware of. And why carry any more weight than you have to?

But that could also be said about a lot of the non-marching literature. The bass trombone is the bridge between tuba and the rest of the trombone section, and provides a unique sound to the orchestra. Why shouldn´t that sound be heard in the marching orchestra as well? Otherwise we could all just play the clarinet, if the weight of the instrument is the most important.
Me looking for aids to make it easier to march with the bass bone doesn´t mean that I find it troublesome, at least not yet. But I don´t want to make it harder than necessary either.

Falin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:26 am

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:31 pm Just to clarify...

What sort of marching are you doing? The needs of someone marching in a military band are quite different from someone marching in a show band that does a lot of choreography.

Not that it really matters, since my question wasn´t if it was appropriate to march with a bass trombone, but it is mostly military band.

A little off topic, but "military" band doesn't always have anything to do with armed forces. In the US long ago, a military band was one that included woodwinds and percussion, not just brass. Many community bands, fire department, factory bands, etc. had military in the title. In older community band libraries you'll see music marked XXX Military band.

Falin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 5:44 am The bass trombone is the bridge between tuba and the rest of the trombone section, and provides a unique sound to the orchestra. Why shouldn´t that sound be heard in the marching orchestra as well?

I think the poor acoustics of outdoor performance hide such subtleties. Or are you marching in indoor theaters, like Blast! did?

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 8:50 pm

Falin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 5:44 am The bass trombone is the bridge between tuba and the rest of the trombone section, and provides a unique sound to the orchestra. Why shouldn´t that sound be heard in the marching orchestra as well?

I think the poor acoustics of outdoor performance hide such subtleties. Or are you marching in indoor theaters, like Blast! did?

Then I truly feel sorry for you, for not being able to hear it. A marching orchestra with a good bass bone player marching towards you is really something. I am not saying you can´t cover the part with a tenor, of course you can, but it´s not the same.

Falin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2024 4:30 am

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 8:50 pm

I think the poor acoustics of outdoor performance hide such subtleties. Or are you marching in indoor theaters, like Blast! did?

Then I truly feel sorry for you, for not being able to hear it. A marching orchestra with a good bass bone player marching towards you is really something. I am not saying you can´t cover the part with a tenor, of course you can, but it´s not the same.

I respectfully disagree. In a parade your audience is not generally in front of you, but to the side. I've watched more than a few Australian and New Zealand Brass Band marching competitions and the distinct sound of the bass trombone is generally not heard unless you are nearly in the middle of the band. You could just as easily play that part on an Eb tuba or a euphonium and nobody but you will hear the difference.

Again, the parts rarely go below the bass staff, so a large bore straight instrument could easily cover the part, unless you are playing the part intended for a G Bass trombone, which is actually a long medium bore instrument.

Falin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 5:44 am But that could also be said about a lot of the non-marching literature. The bass trombone is the bridge between tuba and the rest of the trombone section, and provides a unique sound to the orchestra. Why shouldn´t that sound be heard in the marching orchestra as well? Otherwise we could all just play the clarinet, if the weight of the instrument is the most important.

I'm not sure if you're snarking at me with a reductio ad absurdum argument, or if you really think I was saying everyone should play the lightest instrument possible. But whatever, this illustrates my point yet again. The marching literature is not written for a band full of clarinets. It's written for a bunch of different instruments, each of which needs to be there. And none of them is the bass trombone. Would you play a clarinet if there was no clarinet part written? Then why would you play a bass trombone when there is no bass trombone part written?

It just seemed an obvious observation, to me, that since it's not written for bass trombone, you don't need to carry one. But hey, I get your message: you want to do it, so you're going to do it, and you'd just like a way to make it easier. Okay. I was just asking.

Falin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2024 4:30 am A marching orchestra

Do you really mean "marching band" (like we all assume), or are you talking about a genre of music Americans are unfamiliar with. I'd love to learn more about the style of music, and the style of marching you are performing. Maybe you could link a representative Youtube clip? I know you claimed a bit of a language barrier. Maybe we also have a culture barrier we don't recognize.

When I hear someone who's marched for 30 years, and intends to march for another 30 more, I think to myself it must not be ANY kind of marching I ever did (ha, ha!). I was glad to leave it behind.

Falin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:26 am

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:31 pm Just to clarify...

What sort of marching are you doing? The needs of someone marching in a military band are quite different from someone marching in a show band that does a lot of choreography.

Not that it really matters, since my question wasn´t if it was appropriate to march with a bass trombone, but it is mostly military band.

The sort of marching you do absolutely matters.

For example: if you need to be able to transition from playing to any sort of right hand carry and then back again, dealing with a strap might be a problem. I marched with a bass trombone in college; today, I march with the alumni band once a year. I don't think I could do the (for lack of a better term) "manual of arms" effectively if I was using a support strap. When marching to a cadence, we hold the trombone with the right hand, horizontal with the tuning slide tucked under the right arm. If we play on the march, the horn has to go from the tucked position to playing position in the space of a standard roll-off (8 beats).

If, on the other hand, you're always holding the instrument with your left hand, a strap could be the viable solution.