TromboneChat

Hi there,

I’m looking to record for my upcoming auditions, all solo works, and I was wondering what I should invest in as my iPhones microphone won’t cut it. I saw some posts about Zoom recorder options but I’m not sure if these will be good enough. Preferably I could use whatever I get with my phone or iPad, or if it’s an external recorder transfer the audio. But I did not know where to even start.
(I’m planning on recording at a church too, which has a lot of natural reverb, if that helps)
Any help would be much appreciated,
Thanks!

Zoom works very well and I'd say it's definitely good enough. I use a Zoom H6 for recording myself during practice. Because you can adjust the volume you can avoid clipping that might happen with a small mic on an iPhone or similar device. In the environment you intend to record in I think you would be happy with the results and the cost of a used H6 is very reasonable.

I've used a Zoom H2 for about 15-years for everything from my practicing to interviews I do for articles I write to recording ambient sounds to include in music I sequence. Zoom makes good products.

The room you record in will make a much bigger difference than the gear, and the way you use the gear you have will also make a big difference.

Record in the best room you can. Capture direct and room sound with the best mix you can. I'd recommend 30cm spaced omnis, 2 meters in front of you, and 2m above the bell axis. If you only have a Zoom, you can try placing it in the same position. You can use a subtle impulse reverb (convolution reverb) to bridge the initial direct sound of your attacks with the reverb tail.

The best inexpensive Omni mics I'm aware of are the ones from Line Audio. I've heard Decca tree setups with these that sound unbelievable.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 7:35 am The room you record in will make a much bigger difference than the gear, and the way you use the gear you have will also make a big difference.

Record in the best room you can. Capture direct and room sound with the best mix you can. I'd recommend 30cm spaced omnis, 2 meters in front of you, and 2m above the bell axis. If you only have a Zoom, you can try placing it in the same position. You can use a subtle impulse reverb (convolution reverb) to bridge the initial direct sound of your attacks with the reverb tail.

The best inexpensive Omni mics I'm aware of are the ones from Line Audio. I've heard Decca tree setups with these that sound unbelievable.

So using a zoom such as the H4, H5, or H6 would work well for trombone recording? Or would you recommend a more inexpensive one such as the H1 with an external microphone for better audio. I’ve never recorded with this kind of setup so I will experiment with different placements but I’m planning on getting a stand for this recorder.

Thanks!

I don't have any advice for Chuck, but I have some related questions for the room.

Does the purpose of the recording matter? I imagine wanting something pleasant to listen to would include more "room sound" and reverb, but wanting a recording for analyzing tone, articulations, etc. would benefit by eliminating those things.

What about plugging a USB mic into the phone? Probably cheaper than a dedicated recorder. I know USB mics are plentiful, but I don't know if they are good for musicians (vs. podcasting, I suppose).

I mount mine on a camera tripod. The included mics are pretty damn good. I suggest you borrow one from a friend and use your own SD card. Do some tests before you pop for other microphones, you might be happy with the stock setup. When I want to record quartets I use a Cascade Fat Head ribbon mic. It all depends on how you want your audition recordings to sound and how much you are willing to invest.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 8:15 am I don't have any advice for Chuck, but I have some related questions for the room.

Does the purpose of the recording matter? I imagine wanting something pleasant to listen to would include more "room sound" and reverb, but wanting a recording for analyzing tone, articulations, etc. would benefit by eliminating those things.

The genre matters, too. For similar reasons.

ChuckTbone wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 8:06 am
So using a zoom such as the H4, H5, or H6 would work well for trombone recording? Or would you recommend a more inexpensive one such as the H1 with an external microphone for better audio. I’ve never recorded with this kind of setup so I will experiment with different placements but I’m planning on getting a stand for this recorder.

Thanks!

Yes you can use a Zoom standalone mic. Because they are cardioid pattern, usually in an XY config, you don't get as natural of a sound as spaced omnis, so depending on the genre you may need to compensate with a reverb plugin.

However, it is usually a lot better to use a zoom as an audio interface with higher quality mics (or mics that have better attributes for recording brass).

It's a matter of taste. For me, omnis are the best for classical music, followed by large wide cardioid consensers. I keep hearing about how great ribbons are for brass, but in practice they are not used in classical music settings anywhere near as much as condensers.

What software are you all using to record?

As an alternative point of reference, I use a TASCAM 8 track pocket studio for my personal recording needs. I like the flow without a DAW involved. I prefer Reaper when I do need one.

A Zoom (any of them, as far as I’ve seen) is perfectly capable and you can/will grow into having Mic Opinions(TM).

I have been using a Zoom H5 for years. I recorded pipe organs and did voice or trombone by plugging in an SM58. For software I use Reaper. It works fine.

Lots of great advise. I also was looking for a Zoom Recorder. I would recommend Used as you can sell again for the same price. I ended up getting a Zoom H4n and 2 Rode M5 mics for just over a hundred dollars. I plug it directly into my phone and use it as an external Mic.

I keep reading reviews that say Ribbons are best for brass but pretty much anything with a gain control will be miles better than a phone recording.
Zoom is a game changer and getting one used is a very low risk and you still have a great option if you want to upgrade.

I am absolutely not very experienced with this, but tried out a few things in the last years.

First I bought was a condenser mic and an interface. Easy to set up - I am still using it with Audacity, but I was not happy with the sound. For sure two condensers would have been better and I for sure did not find the right approach regarding room and mic placement.

Then at some point - following the advice that some of the studio trombonists share - I got a ribbon microphone (first a relatively cheap one) and a TritonAudio Fethead for some additional gain with the ribbon.
This definitely went into the right direction soundwise, at least for me, so at some point I bought two other higher quality ribbons and also a larger preamp.

I am still absolutely not happy with the recording results, but now I am pretty sure it's my own fault and not the technology.

And I also got this little thing: https://www.thomann.de/de/ik_multimedia ... ro_i_o.htm
Which is a little easier and substantially smaller also for improving recording quality directly in your phone or tablet, but using an already existing microphone.

But don't ask me for details, I have no clue