TromboneChat

This year marks the 100 year centennial birthday of the late great JJ Johnson. Most of us are aware that JJ died in 2001 and didn’t come close to being a hundred. Nevertheless, he was “the trombone master” and set the tone for modern jazz trombone playing.
I had the opportunity this weekend to see John Fedchock play in Cincinnati. It was exciting to see a concert featuring a trombone player, that I could take my wife so she could hear what a professional player sounded like.
I was not very impressed and we both decided to leave in the middle of the show, which was maybe only an hour and 20 min.
Not trying to sound like a critic here, and am very appreciative of John Fedchocks playing through the years. But to dedicate a new album in remembrance and tribute to the late great JJ Johnson, may not have been the greatest idea.
Has anyone else heard the album or seen Johns show?
We all try to sound like JJ, but I knew walking in that that show was not going to be what I hoped for. Don’t get me wrong, John’s playing is phenomenal, and he’s very proficient on the horn. But I had to go home and rehear the songs played that night and reintroduce “Laura” to my wife so she knew how it really sounded and played.

There are "tribute artists" who are dedicated to imitating and recreating the experience of another, for example I work regularly with a very good Sinatra singer and Rat Pack show.

I'm sure that was not John's intent at all.

And we don't all try to sound like JJ.

Jpechroer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2024 9:30 pm I knew walking in that that show was not going to be what I hoped for.

Then why did you even go? Maybe he wasn't trying to do something that you imagined he should be doing? That's no reason to call him out for criticism.

Both are/were phenomenal players. Definitely on line with Doug here. Had he been a tribute artist…he would be trying to sound like JJ, but he is not. These are most likely songs that JJ did that are near and dear to his own heart, so he played them and maybe put his own spin on it, much like when a newer mainstream artist sings a cover of an older artist’s song. Do they make it their own, or do they try to sing it like the original?

If you go in wanting to hear JJ you were definitely going to be disappointed! Definitely really different styles imo.

What were you expecting?
A JJ clone playing a King 3B with an M21 mouthpiece?

I’m sure JF was paying his respects to JJ with the choice of tunes but done in his way as we would expect from JF being an outstanding soloist with his own language/style.

Hats off to him for being himself at all times.

Ok, every one. Sheesh! I thought this section was the “tangent section” and didnt think I was coming off condemning or rude. Why wouldn’t we all strive to sound like JJ, Doug? He’s got great intonation, sound, and technique. Every note he played was usually spot on in pitch and tembre, his fluidity through the partials and slide technique were way ahead of his time.
I was merely trying to get a discussion going and wanting to see if anyone else has seen or heard John’s tribute to JJ?
I’m sorry I ruffled some feathers in my post, it was not my intent to defame John’s playing or intention. I was simply saying that I didn’t like the performance and voicing my opinion.

Jpechroer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:17 pm
I was merely trying to get a discussion going...

Guess what? It worked!

I am reminded of the one time Hal Crook played a concert at the International Trombone Festival. A few people got up to leave after a couple of tunes. Hal said "Wait, I can play straight ahead too. I just don't want to."

It should be everyone's goal to play with great intonation, sound, technique, fluidity through the partials and slide technique. It might mean sounding like Charlie Vernon, or Frank Rosolino... or Hal Crook.
Not necessarily like JJ.

JJ was so strong and declarative in his style. I don't recall anyone who has done something similar. Some have one or the other, but none both in a similar way.

You mentioned you weren’t impressed by Fedchock’s concert, but not why. Were you disappointed that he played in his own style instead of channeling JJ or was it something else you didn’t enjoy?

I’ve always enjoyed Fedchock’s playing and writing. Is he touring or was this a one off concert?

Wilktone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:46 am I’ve always enjoyed Fedchock’s playing and writing. Is he touring or was this a one off concert?

I think he's touring. Not sure of his full itinerary, but he brought that show to Akron & Cleveland. Had a gig both of those nights or I would have gone to one of them.

Doug, I saw the same thing happen at ITA Conference in Ithaca.
Gary Valente was up playing his ass off and people were leaving saying " Who`s this Clown, He obviously doesn`t know how to play"
I was discussed as Gary is a Fantastic Musician and he has a very personnel style . If were expecting Watrous or JJ Wrong room !!!
Fedchock is not JJ. I think the concept was more about featuring JJ`s Compositions as John doen`t play like JJ at all.
BUT the influence is there, and that`s what counts. Paying Tribute to those that came before us

I note that Jpechroer hasn't been back to tell us exactly what he found so lacking or objectionable about Fedchock's JJ tribute. The closest we got was him asking...

Jpechroer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:17 pm Why wouldn’t we all strive to sound like JJ? He’s got great intonation, sound, and technique. Every note he played was usually spot on in pitch and tembre, his fluidity through the partials and slide technique were way ahead of his time.

I have my favorite styles of playing, too, but in the grander scheme of things, viva la difference! How boring would it be if we all sounded the same?

What I found lacking w John’s playing style was he was very proficient in his upper register and had good tone. But the middle register was airy and wasn’t much of any low register. I take into account the horn he’s playing, the one he endorses, and having had both the 1632 and 1634 models, they weren’t too impressive. His slide technique and using his fore finger on the bell for 3rd and 4th positions was a surprise. I know studying under some folks that nearly smacked my hand till I quit doing it. I reckon the thing that got me the most was the lack of musicality in solo playing. John’s playing was very technical, and showed efficient trombone skills, but lacked musicality. It seems today, jazz trombone which you can get a degree in, is mainly scale patterns and chord progressions.

John is a fantastic player but I know what you mean, he does tend to play long strings of notes.
I recently heard Michael Bowie (jazz bass player) say "In school they don't teach 'telling a story.'"

That simply sounds like his style isn't your favorite which is totally fair. I think just your first post came across a little too harsh.

And I can totally relate - not reg John Fedchock specifically, but to not really enjoying the playing of some of the usual suspects.

My take is that John picked a very good cross section of Jay’s compositions and reinterpreted them. In the process, he continued to sound like — gasp! — himself. I feel J.J. would have loved it. Tributes to those with justifiably great reputations carry a risk, in that they’ll always invite comparisons, but maybe forget that and just listen.