Tenor Trombone under 2000 EUR

[1ro1]

Dears,
I'd like to buy my first trombone to play eventually (when I learned play it ) in a brass band, concert band, big band. I settled on the following criteria:

• Only new (unused). I know that money can buy a better used instrument, but nevertheless I'd like to buy my first instrument as unused one.

• F attachment.

• Suitable for brass band, concert band, big band.

I'm located in Germany, so I'd like to buy it in Europe (due to import taxes and warranty). Because there is no shop nearby to compare them I'll buy a winner online with an ability to return within a couple of weeks.
For that budget <= 2000 EUR I have found the following trombones online. Would you please share your opinion which one is the best? If you know a better unused trombone model available in Europe within that budget, would you please let me know.

Yamaha YSL 446 G
Courtois AC 260 BO
Yamaha YSL 448 GE II
Yamaha YSL-356 G

[Tooloud]

Schau dir bei dieser Preisgrenze - und als Anfänger - auch mal die Eigenmarken der großen Händler oder höherwertige China-Importe an! Ich spiele neben meinem Bass eine Sierman von Thoman, die richtig gut klingt. Es darf einen halt nicht stören, dass sie nach einem "namhaften" Modell "designed" ist. Meine ist nun doch schon einige Jahre alt und halt mehr äußerliche Abnutzungerscheinungen als es eine Yamaha hätte, aber dafür ist der Klang deutlich besser als bei einer Yamaha im Amateurbreich so bis 3,5 bis 4,5 k €. Ich kann es nachvollziehen, wenn man ein Original haben möchte und den laxen Umgang der Chinesen mit Urheberrechten nicht unterstützen möchte, aber dass die Instrumente die Hälfte kosten (meine hat schon vor Jahren fast 2 k € gekostet, für eine China-Posaune schon ein Wort...) aber deutlich besser klingen, lässt sich halt nicht wegdiskutieren. Als ich die Sierman gekauft habe, konnte ich sie in Treppendorf mit einer Edwards und einer Shires vergleichen: Man musste schon genau hinhören, um sich einen Unterschied einzubilden - das größte Störfaktor sitzt hat vor dem Mundstück...
Zu deiner Auswahl: Die 356 ist gut und vielseitig, bei der macht man zu dem Preis garantiert nichts falsch. Die Mittelklasse 44x ist m.E. eher nichtssagend, aber solide. Ich hatte schon zwei Yamaha-Bassposaunen, die mechanisch tadellos waren (der schlimmste "Hund" war eine Bach! Die musste trotz mehrerer Werkstattaufenthalte schließlich wieder gehen, weil ich davon völlig entnervt war.), dazu habe noch eine 354 für Big Band-Jazz, passt.
Überflüssige Anmerkung: Keinesfalls etwas unter ca. 1200€ anschauen. Das taugt allenfalls im Jugendbereich, wo es eh schnell hin ist.

Google Translation:
At this price limit - and as a beginner - take a look at the own brands of the big retailers or higher quality Chinese imports! In addition to my bass, I play a Sierman from Thoman, which sounds really good. It shouldn't bother you that it is "designed" after a "well-known" model. Mine is already a few years old and has more external signs of wear than a Yamaha would have, but the sound is much better than a Yamaha in the amateur range up to 3.5 to 4.5k €. I can understand if you want an original and don't want to support the Chinese's lax approach to copyright, but there's no denying that the instruments cost half as much (mine cost almost 2k € years ago, which is quite a lot for a Chinese trombone...) but sound much better. When I bought the Sierman, I was able to compare it with an Edwards and a Shires in Treppendorf: You had to listen carefully to imagine a difference - the biggest problem is in front of the mouthpiece...
About your choice: The 356 is good and versatile, you can't go wrong with it for the price. The mid-range 44x is rather bland in my opinion, but solid. I already had two Yamaha bass trombones that were mechanically flawless (the worst "dog" was a Bach! It finally had to go again despite several trips to the workshop because I was completely fed up with it.), and I also have a 354 for big band jazz, which is fine.
Unnecessary note: Don't look at anything under around €1200. That's only good for young people, where it'll wear out quickly anyway.<BG>

[LeTromboniste]

Dears,
I'd like to buy my first trombone to play eventually (when I learned play it ) in a brass band, concert band, big band. I settled on the following criteria:

• Only new (unused). I know that money can buy a better used instrument, but nevertheless I'd like to buy my first instrument as unused one.

• F attachment.

• Suitable for brass band, concert band, big band.

I'm located in Germany, so I'd like to buy it in Europe (due to import taxes and warranty). Because there is no shop nearby to compare them I'll buy a winner online with an ability to return within a couple of weeks.
For that budget <= 2000 EUR I have found the following trombones online. Would you please share your opinion which one is the best? If you know a better unused trombone model available in Europe within that budget, would you please let me know.

Yamaha YSL 446 G
Courtois AC 260 BO
Yamaha YSL 448 GE II
Yamaha YSL-356 G

Because you're new and don't know exactly what kinds of ensembles you'll be playing it eventually, but expressed interest in big band, I would rule out the larger 448 and choose one of the others. Personally if I didn't have the possibility of trying first, I think my reflex would be to go for one of the Yamahas. The 356 is a really decent horn, and if later on you play in both a concert band and a big band and you feel like buying a larger horn for the classical stuff, the 356 will still be useful as a small-ish instrument.

[walldaja]

I vote for v the Courtois, solid horn.

[Digidog]

I voted for the Courtois, but could have voted equally for the Yamaha 356; both should be really good horns out of the box.

[1ro1]

After reading the forum extensively I’ve decided to eventually have 2 trombones: small bore one and a large bore one. Starting with the large one. I guess this thread can be closed. Thanks a lot to everybody for the contribution.

[ZacharyThornton]

That Coutrois is not the same as the French and German made models… that is a Chinese made clone that really doesn’t hold a candle to the 420 series.

[Vegasbound]

A 525 such as a used Bach 36b, or Yamaha equivalent versatile enough to do the things you want. And available for under your budget, including shipping from the UK to Germany

[Posaunus]

I guess this thread can be closed. Thanks a lot to everybody for the contribution.

[flyingcow]

After reading the forum extensively I’ve decided to eventually have 2 trombones: small bore one and a large bore one. Starting with the large one. I guess this thread can be closed. Thanks a lot to everybody for the contribution.

...only 2?

[Posaunus]

After reading the forum extensively I’ve decided to eventually have 2 trombones: small bore one and a large bore one. Starting with the large one. I guess this thread can be closed. Thanks a lot to everybody for the contribution.

...only 2?

It's a good start!

[flyingcow]

...only 2?

It's a good start!

I guess. I only have 3 right now, but I'm getting itchy. I need another bass because... well... because.