TromboneChat

At 150 BPM, these 1/16 note triplets are too fast for me to triple tongue. They are almost like grace notes.

But by using the partials and doodle tonguing, I can get it right most of the time.

Am I on the right track?

Whatever gets the job done. Assuming this is JJs Camino real, a lot of jazz musicians just play that as 3-4-3 so the partials do all the work for you

Nolankberk wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 2:35 pm Whatever gets the job done. Assuming this is JJs Camino real, a lot of jazz musicians just play that as 3-4-3 so the partials do all the work for you

Reed’s arrangement for concert band. But point taken. Thanks!

Nolankberk wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 2:35 pm ...a lot of jazz musicians just play that as 3-4-3 so the partials do all the work for you

This. In fact, this is such a common lick for trombones, you'd do well to practice it as a slur in every key. I think of it as "that Rosolino lick," or a variation thereof.

Nothing to do with JJ's. Reed's is not an arrangement, it's an original composition for wind band, and not jazz at all.

Regardless, I'd personally prefer to doodle this if I I played that today, but it's unlikely the other trombone players in your band will doodle this, and you have to match as a section. So if you doodle it, make sure you match their triple tonguing as well as you can. Or convince them to do something else. As mentioned above this can also just be done as lip slurs 3-4-3-1, but if I recall correctly it's the climax of the piece and really loud and in unison with the section so it's possible it'll be hard to match as a section if you're all doing that, depending on the level of the individual players. The timing and shape have to be just right otherwise it makes a big loud mess (speaking from experience, played this with two bands, with one slurring worked great, with the other not at all).

Stefano wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 2:06 pm At 150 BPM, these 1/16 note triplets are too fast for me to triple tongue.

Why in the world would anyone try to triple-tongue that lick? At that speed it's gonna come off way to hard sounding. It's gotta either be a lip slur (my preference) or a doodle (okay, but why?).

Played that like 20 years ago... I would for sure play this as a lip slur with the F in high 4th position.

Shouldn't that have just been written as a turn?

Arranger for the trombone section, triumph of hope.

tbdana wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:26 am

Stefano wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 2:06 pm At 150 BPM, these 1/16 note triplets are too fast for me to triple tongue.

Why in the world would anyone try to triple-tongue that lick? At that speed it's gonna come off way to hard sounding. It's gotta either be a lip slur (my preference) or a doodle (okay, but why?).

Yes!

Just fret it. ( ie lip slur it)

tbdana wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 6:06 pm This. In fact, this is such a common lick for trombones, you'd do well to practice it as a slur in every key. I think of it as "that Rosolino lick," or a variation thereof.

Exactly! The phrase is a classic example for the use of BAHLS articulation (Between Adjacent Harmonic Lip Slurs) on a slide trombone. Sometimes known as "against-the-grain" slide technique. This is the main reason why Apollo and Saint Cecilia (and all the other gods and patron saints of sound and music) got together to put the seventh harmonic on the trombone—neatly sitting mid-way between the sixth and eighth harmonics, resulting in handy vertical intervals of seconds and thirds. Perfect for rapid scalar passages with BAHLS (or detached) articulation (or sustained tones) using nearby positions. [Note that our friends playing valved brass instruments almost never use the seventh harmonic, except for special effects.] It's also why Apollo, St Cecilia, et al, put the fifth harmonic on all brass instruments—neatly sitting between the fourth and sixth harmonics, again resulting in handy vertical intervals, this time of major and minor thirds. Also perfect for legato or detached BAHLS articulation of rapid scalar passages (or sustained tones) on the trombone using nearby positions. [Our "valved" friends can also use "valve legato" along a single harmonic.]

It's also why (single-valve) sesquitone tuning (e.g. Bb/G or C/A tenor) makes the attachment fourth harmonic available—neatly sitting midway between the slide-alone third and fourth harmonics, resulting in handy vertical intervals of seconds and thirds. Perfect for rapid scalar passages with BAHLS (or detached) articulation (or sustained tones) using nearby positions—one octave below the combination of (slide-alone) sixth-seventh-eighth harmonics—with essentially the same nominal slide positions. Also why sesquitone tuning makes the attachment third harmonic available—neatly sitting between slide-alone second and third harmonics, again resulting in handy vertical intervals of major and minor thirds. Mimicking the combination of (slide-alone) fourth-fifth-sixth harmonics, one octave lower. In this case, nominal slide positions are exactly the same. Perfect for rapid scalar passages (or sustained tones) in this otherwise awkward low-tenor register. The attachment second harmonic, a minor-third below the slide-alone second harmonic, extends this enhanced slide facility down below the bass clef.




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Thank you all. Very helpful stuff here. And well worth practicing in different keys, as one of you suggested.

I also agree that the real challenge comes with matching in the section. Stay tuned!

Stefano wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 2:45 pm Reed’s arrangement for concert band. But point taken. Thanks!

I assume this is a transcription error in the score for trb 2. And that all four notes should be down a step, forming a sequence of major triads, paralleling what happens a couple of measures later—with all three parts down a step and more major triads. How does it appear in the individual part?



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