TromboneChat

Hey guys, I just joined here so some might not see this. I currently play on a Yamaha 448g, and honestly it does me very well. I have a good range on it and can get a very powerful sound out of it (I think). My teacher is offering to sell me her Chicago shires trombone, but it would basically be all of my savings. I have looked at some Eastman trombones, I just feel worried buying a sub par trombone when I could wait it out and go all out with a professional model. So, my question is: do I settle for something cheaper, wait to go all out, or just use this trombone for my auditions and school next fall if I end up going to a conservatory? Thank you!

Stay with what you have.

What is a "Chicago shires trombone" ???

A 448 was good enough for Christian Lindbergh on some of his first albums...

If you like the sound you get with it and the way it plays, and don't feel like it's holding you back, I would say for sure keep what you have and save the money. Keep saving up so that if and when you're studying at a conservatory and your playing has matured more and you've had more opportunities to try many different instruments, then you can consider upgrading with more understanding of what you need and why, and what horns might fit those needs.

There's a Chicago Model symphonic tenor from Shires: https://www.seshires.com/tbch

448G is a very good horn. I'd only upgrade when it's seriously holding you back.

A Shires is a pretty good horn. If the money works, go for it.

Wait a few decades until you have plenty of money, but very little time and energy to play the trombone, and can afford a bunch of expensive ones, and then buy some of them, and only play them a couple of hours per week, while your corporate job continues to slowly grind you down into a fine powder. Like a normal person.

LetItSlide wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 1:52 pm Wait a few decades until you have plenty of money, but very little time and energy to play the trombone, and can afford a bunch of expensive ones, and then buy some of them, and only play them a couple of hours per week, while your corporate job continues to slowly grind you down into a fine powder. Like a normal person.

Wow... this one hits a little close to home.

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:31 pm A 448 was good enough for Christian Lindbergh on some of his first albums...

It was a 648R. Not sure if that's a model that changed numbers at some point. I talked to him one time about that and he had been really excited about the endorsement from Yamaha, but he he basically recorded one album, the Romantic Trombone, and it wasn't his sound so he went back to the 88H.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 2:49 pm

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:31 pm A 448 was good enough for Christian Lindbergh on some of his first albums...

It was a 648R. Not sure if that's a model that changed numbers at some point. I talked to him one time about that and he had been really excited about the endorsement from Yamaha, but he he basically recorded one album, the Romantic Trombone, and it wasn't his sound so he went back to the 88H.

You're absolutely right, my bad. My memory was a bit fuzzy.

But my opinion would stay the same regarding OP's conundrum. A 448 is a perfectly decent instrument to have in highschool and get started in college until several options have been explored for upgrading.

I would also advise sticking with what you have at least until you are in college. Keep your savings and let it earn interest so that you can upgrade to something that is entirely your choice.

As to the Shires Chicago model...I like it a lot, but it's a pretty specific combination of elements that's not for every player or every situation. I would not recommend it over the https://www.seshires.com/tbsca or even the Q series, honestly, unless somebody tried it and fell in love with it.

In a September 1, 1998 interview with the Online Trombone Journal, Doug Elliott made the following statement: "When I auditioned for the Airmen of Note, I was playing on a Yamaha student model YSL 354 (because I liked it!) It is a fine .500 bore horn and is reasonably priced." This is not a case of, "Take my advice; I'm not using it. If you search "Doug Elliot 354 trombone," you can read the entire article.

OneTon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 4:38 pm A case study evaluating the return on investment and attendant risk assessment would not validate spending the money for a Shires.

I would amend that to "would not validate spending the money for any new/different trombone" in the OP's current situation. There simply isn't any "need". Hang onto that money for a while in case you have a genuine need for it in the next few years. Life may teach you that your situation may change in unexpected ways.

I confess that when I was a freshman in college I bought a used flute in a pawn shop for $20 (which was quite a bit for me then) so I could double on it in a big band I was in and play it in the school band at hockey games instead of dragging the sax. It was something of an extravagance since I was scraping by on scholarship, an NDEA loan, and a 20 hr/week job while taking a demanding schedule, working vacations and summers. I didn't have a car or a bicycle. But I felt that $20 was well spent, though I didn't actually "need" it. Or maybe I did. Looking back on my undergraduate years, I sometimes wonder how it could have seemed like so much fun -- but a lot of it was. Sometimes you "need" things that you don't really need. But I'm not getting the feeling that this trombone is one of those cases. Just my opinion.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:25 amSometimes you "need" things that you don't really need.

The distinction between "want" and "need" is not cut and dried. There's a broad gray area in between that I'd call the "good to have" zone.

JohnL wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:36 am

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:25 amSometimes you "need" things that you don't really need.

The distinction between "want" and "need" is not cut and dried. There's a broad gray area in between that I'd call the "good to have" zone.

There's always Maslow's hierarchy of needs--and what you "need" depends on how well things on the lower levels of the hierarchy are in control. I know that Maslow's theory is and has been debated extensively, but models don't have to be absolutely correct to be useful.

"Belonging" is fundamental at a psychological level, and it's entirely possible that a musical instrument can be an important component of belonging. I suspect that many think of music (and its tools) as belonging at the self-actualization level of the hierarchy, but I feel it at a much lower level. And of course, a new tool can feed more than one level of the hierarchy.

“ “

A few years ago I bought a 1947 Olds Special (with the "serpentine" braces) for $150. I'm not sure why -- except that it's exactly as old as I am, is kind of a cool horn, and I thought I "might" use it on odd occasions. So far, I haven't. On the other hand, I could easily afford the $150 without it being a hit on other more critical aspects of my life at the moment. So it fits into the category of "minor toy" or something like that.

The $20 flute when I was 18 was much more adventurous, although I'd already managed to handle, room, board, and tuition for the semester. Later, in early graduate school, $20 would have kept me eating for at least a couple of weeks -- but by then I was doing better financially (relatively speaking).

If the money works, buy the horn. You’ve tried it (presumably liked it), it has a decent pedigree (ie it belonged to your teacher who, again presumably, knows something and wouldn’t steer you wrong). If you take care of it, a Shires won’t lose too much of its value if down the road you decide to sell it. On the other hand you might not need to ever buy another .547 horn.

Keep the Yam to play outside or in circumstances where the Shires might get damaged (marching band).

It’s best to experience life, not live it vicariously through a bunch of old farts’ war stories.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:07 am ...
It’s best to experience life, not live it vicariously through a bunch of old farts’ war stories.

Hey! As an old fart, I resemble that remark.

But to the OP: I know the allure of a great new horn is huge. But it probably won't (by itself) make a huge change in your playing. Especially if you are still in school. If you have to make a claim on the Bank of Mom and Dad for the new horn, I'd strongly recommend you pass for now.

A Yamaha 448 will serve you well into college, even if you are majoring in Performance. And as an educator, it could last you your lifetime. On the other hand, I understand peer pressure. Are your colleagues all getting fancy new trombones? If that's not the case I'd stay with what you have.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:26 am Hey! As an old fart, I resemble that remark.

Nah, you're not that old.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:07 am It’s best to experience life, not live it vicariously through a bunch of old farts’ war stories.

You’re absolutely right. I know nothing. And I can prove it.

In all fairness, you could buy the Shires. They are excellent horns, but assuming you’ve tried it, do you love it?

I put together a beautiful Shires horn and sold it cause I needed the money back. Bought another awesome Shires ‘Q’ series horn, great sound, awesome slide, easy to play…I just found myself reaching for my old 60s/70s King 4BF most of the time, there is just something special about the King and even in blind play tests, that was the one people always picked.

I guess it comes down to…if you have the money and you find the horn special, go for it…if not wait. If your going to put that kind of money out…you should be sure I think.