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Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 10:22 pm
by Pablo230707
Does anyone know why my snakes break off in my trombone slide? This has happened once in my 2B so I had to pay a sort of hefty price to get the stuck brush out. If you do know why that happens is there an alternative to cleaning the slide just as well as a snake does? Or is there a way to prevent the snake from braking in my slide?
Thanks guys
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 10:48 pm
by Posaunus
Get rid of your trombone-damaging snake immediately, and purchase an HW Products
Brass-Saver brush:
https://hwproducts.com/about-us/
"Our HW
Brass-Saver brushes offer a safe and effective method of cleaning corrosive saliva and mineral deposits from the inside of your horn. They can be used wet or dry, won’t get stuck, and unlike the traditional snake, they contain absolutely no metal so they won’t scratch."
This soft pull-through brush with a long plastic lead ribbon will pass all the way through your inner
and outer trombone slides, including the end crook! You can use it to dry your bell section as well - it will even pass through the valve of an F-attachment trombone! I use the “Tuba” size for my large-bore trombones. Note that for effective water removal, the
Brass-Saver brush should be wiped dry with a small towel between multiple passes through the slide.
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 10:53 pm
by OneTon
I have used snakes since 1964. The early snakes had robust brushes and stiffer wire. We purposely did not allow the snake to enter the crook. In more recent years, the brushes have been anemic and the wire somewhat flexible. Occasionally these snakes would enter the crook accidentally. If the snake went in easily, it also came out easily, even on my 2B. I always have the crook filled up with water plus an inch or two in each tube, and a squirt of Dawn Dish Soap.
Never attempt to force the brush through the crook. A better quality snake such as manufactured by Yamaha may be obtained. The snake needs to be periodically inspected to determine if the wire has corrosion. Discard a snake with corrosion or kink present. Switching to a brass saver may aleviate the problem. I have no experience with a brass saver. I never had a anake get stuck. I suppose that getting one stuck is a “yet.”
Please confirm that your snake breaks off in the crook.
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 12:56 am
by Pablo230707
OneTon wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 10:53 pm
I have used snakes since 1964. The early snakes had robust brushes and stiffer wire. We purposely did not allow the snake to enter the crook. In more recent years, the brushes have been anemic and the wire somewhat flexible. Occasionally these snakes would enter the crook accidentally. If the snake went in easily, it also came out easily, even on my 2B. I always have the crook filled up with water plus an inch or two in each tube, and a squirt of Dawn Dish Soap.
Never attempt to force the brush through the crook. A better quality snake such as manufactured by Yamaha may be obtained. The snake needs to be periodically inspected to determine if the wire has corrosion. Discard a snake with corrosion or kink present. Switching to a brass saver may aleviate the problem. I have no experience with a brass saver. I never had a anake get stuck. I suppose that getting one stuck is a “yet.”
Please confirm that your snake breaks off in the crook.
Unfortunately the brush end of the snake did break off in the crook
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 7:34 am
by OneTon
Herb Rankin, then 1sr chair in the KC Philharmonic, told me not to pass through or insert the brush into the crook. If i clean out the slide once a week with Dawn it stays clean. You can try that brass saver in accordance with Posaunus. Never force anything into the crook, or for that matter, the slide. You’re not the first person to break something off in a slide. I have done things that didn’t always end well: The older I get, it seems that I have more of them to remember.
Mr. Rankin told me not to use the gun rod style tool, saying that those rods do more damage than good. I put a rod through the crook of a Bach LT6 when I was about 50. It didn’t cost that much to fix but I didn’t have the horn for about 6 months. Mr. Rankin was right a lot of the time.
One other thing I forgot. If a brush slips in to the crook, I pull it out the same way I put it in. I do not push it on through. I apologize for being pedantic.
Peas,
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:11 am
by ithinknot
Pull-through systems like the Brass-Saver are more likely to keep you out of trouble. But you do want to be putting something through the crook... your tech will likely end up using a snake even if you don't.
With traditional push-through snake brushes, discard them if there's an obvious kink before the brush head; the wire will eventually break at that point.
Also, depending on the crook and waterkey geometry, there's often one direction where the brush head naturally finds its way into the drilled hole, at which point further pushing encourages kinking and breaking. The opposite direction is usually fine, and sometimes there's no problem either way. But if there is an obvious sticking point, it's worth remembering and avoiding the direction that causes the problem.
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:17 am
by tbonesullivan
The only snakes I put through my crooks are the brass saver and the Slide O Mix flex snake that goes on the end of the cleaning rod. Both of these are specifically designed to go through slide crooks without issue. I use a standard Yamaha snake for leaning the inside of the inner slide when needed for a wet cleaning.
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 11:14 am
by Nomsis
When I started playing the trombone as a kid after a while my teacher told me I needed to clean my slide and he advised me to use a pull-trough (can't remember what product exactly it was though). I was motivated and went to action. Long story short - it ended with the cleaning cloth stuck in the middle of the outer slide tube and the cable in my hand. It never came lose again, the tech couldn't get it out either and so the slide got abandoned. Luckily the trombone wasn't worth much.
I guess I did something wrong or something with the pull-trough was wrong or whatever. In any case since that day I avoided pull-troughs completely.
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 11:53 am
by AtomicClock
I was always taught the ramrod was to clean the straight parts, and the snake was to clean the crook. But I never really believed that snake could clean anything, with such light pressure to the sides. I press much harder with a sponge when washing dishes in the sink.
Then, when I switched from .500 to .547, it seemed REALLY inadequate.
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 1:43 pm
by Estraven
I also am a big fan of the Brass Saver / Slide-O-Mix combo: Slide-O-Mix for the straight slide tubes, Brass Saver to get through the slide crook and bell/valve tubes.
One thing I do NOT do is pull any cleaning tool against the lower edge of the leadpipe (not even the Brass Saver). I push the Slide-O-Mix rod/sock once down the lower inner slide tube/leadpipe, then pull out the rod from the top, then pull out the sock from the bottom of the tube. Repeat until happy.
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 4:21 pm
by tbonesullivan
Estraven wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 1:43 pmOne thing I do NOT do is pull any cleaning tool against the lower edge of the leadpipe (not even the Brass Saver). I push the Slide-O-Mix rod/sock once down the lower inner slide tube/leadpipe, then pull out the rod from the top, then pull out the sock from the bottom of the tube. Repeat until happy.
I don't think that the sock is really designed for cleaning the inside of the inner slide. That's what the flex snake is for: wet cleaning of the entire inside of the slide. There can be a lot of grime and/or go that is on the inner slide, and it is significantly more narrow than the outer side.
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 4:45 pm
by Posaunus
tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 4:21 pm
Estraven wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 1:43 pmOne thing I do NOT do is pull any cleaning tool against the lower edge of the leadpipe (not even the Brass Saver). I push the Slide-O-Mix rod/sock once down the lower inner slide tube/leadpipe, then pull out the rod from the top, then pull out the sock from the bottom of the tube. Repeat until happy.
I don't think that the sock is really designed for cleaning the inside of the inner slide. That's what the flex snake is for: wet cleaning of the entire inside of the slide. There can be a lot of grime and/or go that is on the inner slide, and it is significantly more narrow than the outer side.
I've had no problems pulling the (very soft)
Brass-Saver brush through my inner slides - as long as I pull it gently through the upper slide leadpipe (my leadpipes are soldered) from the mouthpiece end. A couple of passes (wiping dry in between) and my inners are clean, dry, and shiny. No grime, no goo, no moisture.
I think I would avoid trying to pull a cloth-on-a-string type swab through the upper slide, for fear that it might snag and damage the leadpipe. Should be O.K. on the lower slide, but I've never tried. I prefer to use the
Slide-O-Mix towel sheath to finish-polish the lower slide.
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:02 pm
by tbonesullivan
Posaunus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 4:45 pmI've had no problems pulling the (very soft)
Brass-Saver brush through my inner slides - as long as I pull it gently through the upper slide leadpipe (my leadpipes are soldered) from the mouthpiece end. A couple of passes (wiping dry in between) and my inners are clean, dry, and shiny. No grime, no goo, no moisture.
I think I would avoid trying to pull a cloth-on-a-string type swab through the upper slide, for fear that it might snag and damage the leadpipe. Should be O.K. on the lower slide, but I've never tried. I prefer to use the
Slide-O-Mix towel sheath to finish-polish the lower slide.
Brass Saver through the inner slides (with the inner slide removed) is part of my standard cleaning procedure. I then can also look down the slide and see if I need a few more passes. I have found that the little plastic bead on the end can in some slides get stuck against the end of the inner slide, so I figured it was easier to just not use it that way. Then I use it again for the final pass after swabbing the outer slide.
Re: Snake breaking in my trombone slides!!!
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 10:54 pm
by Pablo230707
Thanks to everyone for helping me out with this issue!
