TromboneChat

EDIT: Revised thread title to reflect that Mr. Friedman has retired, as indicated further down.

I was thinking of sending some mouthpieces off for replating, but their website is gone and Yelp says they're closed. Has anyone done business with them recently?

I just had a couple pieces plated a couple months ago. I'd be surprised if he was gone entirely

I hope he's still in business. But his Website appears to be defunct.
Dave did a great job on a few mouthpieces for me a couple of years ago.
Try contacting him directly:
[email protected]
877-255-0193

He just told me that he has retired.

I've had a good experience with Todd Clontz in Maryland. His email is his name with a period between first and last names at Gmail.

Good for Dave.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:56 pmGood for Dave.

Not so much for people needing mouthpieces plated. He had a really good rep.

I do refinishing and plating. Just did an Olds 3 that was sold on here recently (I recognized it from the ad). Unfortunately it's not cheap. Refinishing takes time and I have to pay for the plating, same as on my mouthpieces.

I don't know what Todd Clontz is doing these days - I haven't been in contact with him in a lot of years.

I have had Osmun replate two mouthpieces this year. The work was fast, the price reasonable, and the quality was outstanding. I recommend Osmun.

What do you consider a reasonable price?

FYI, here are Stork's currently listied plating prices and options:

https://storkcustom.com/mouthpieces/customizations/

A worthwhile question for whomever is doing plating for any of you:

What is your process?

There is a difference between anything brush plated and a proper immersion bath. Brush plating is fine for a lot of circumstances, I personally find it unacceptable for mouthpieces.

Are there really any professional mouthpiece platers that use brush plating? Isn't that more of a "home remedy"?

It was around $100 including shipping from Osmun…

ALL of the work - refinishing, buffing, cleaning, plating process - needs to be done properly if you expect it to last. The $35 cost I see quoted can't possibly include everything done right, at current prices.

nebtrombone wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:21 am It was around $100 including shipping from Osmun…

That's more like it.

Years ago I had a Schilke tuba mouthpieces plated by a guy who had achieved a good reputation with his small plating business. In those days I was enamored with gold mouthpieces (before I realized I didn't really like how slippery the rims were). It was a very low price compared to the major shops doing plating. When it came back it looked fine, although not as "deep gold" as the Schilke factory piece I had. Within a couple of years it was wearing through to the silver under plate. It doesn't pay to go with anyone who doesn't do a thorough and correct job in terms of both the prep (which should be meticulous) and the plating itself.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 7:31 am Are there really any professional mouthpiece platers that use brush plating? Isn't that more of a "home remedy"?

I wouldn’t describe most repair shops as plating shops (nor vice versa).

Brush plating can be done well (higher build solutions/more powerful rectifiers etc) and has its applications, but I would suggest that a mouthpiece rim/bowl (or really anywhere) is not where it excels. Simply too much wear and tear from rubbing/inserting/handling.

I have only ever heard good things about Stork and their plating, but I do not know specifically how they handle plating. Fairly certain Doug has all of his mouthpiece plating done professionally/at a specific plater, while other shops mentioned here are likely NOT shipping things out for actual plating.

As Doug mentioned, surface prep is Job 1 if you want a decent plating.

Also, plating gold directly on brass is an invitation to disaster. Gold dissolves into brass in a solid-state reaction so you need a barrier layer between the brass and gold. In Electronics we use nickel (on gold fingers), but nickel is quite hard and with two relatively soft metals (brass and gold) as the outside of the sandwich, you tend to have flaking under normal use. The silver plate normally put on a mouthpiece acts as a good barrier layer between the brass and the gold.

Another thing to watch out for is whether you are getting a decorative coating or a coating designed for wear. A 5 microinch coating will look nice, but will rub off in your pocket. A good coating should be 50 to 100 microinches.

Note that the cost of the gold is the least of the costs of a good gold plate. There is a lot of labor in the preparation, and the equipment for a good plate on a round object has a fair amount of amortization to include.

My process for gold plate (electronics) was:

1. Surface buff to a high shine.
2. Clean off buffing chemicals (often a solvent)
3. Electroclean: reverse current flash to "roughen" the surface for better adhesion
4. Rinse
5. Flash plate barrier metal (in my case nickel) -- a thin layer applied at high current density that gives a rough plating for better adhesion of the bulk plate.
6. Barrier Metal plate -- a thick plating (often 100 microinches or more) to provide separation between the underlayer (in my case copper) and the gold layer. This plating is bright and shiny since the gold on top will replicate any imperfections.
7. Flash plate gold -- a thin layer at high current density that helps adhesion
8. Gold plate -- the finish layer to thickness.

I've ignored a number of rinses with pure water in between the plating steps

If this is done well, the final product won't need any buffing and will be bright and shiny. Plating at too high a current density results in a grainy plating that may require polishing to even out.

Many of the major manufacturers use Andersen Plating, but they are a production shop and won't take small orders. But they are the "gold standard" (pun intended) of gold plating. Doug Elliott does his own plating and John Stork does his own plating. I don't know if they are set up as onesies or larger batches (or both) but doing a single mouthpiece is not as economical as doing several.

I made inquiries at a custom plater near here and he said the first piece was $100 and it went down with volume. This was 15 years ago, so you can probably guess that the price has doubled.

I don't do my own plating. It's a local industrial place that only does large batches of perfectly prepared parts.

I'm suspecting that no matter who does the plating (industrial plater or small shop), nobody makes a pile of money from it.