TromboneChat

Hi everyone! I'm interested in discussing how mouthpiece material affects sound and articulation. Specifically, I'm curious about the impact on sound quality rather than the physical feel, given the common perception that gold is slicker than silver.

After watching the linked video, it seemed to me that Alessi's articulation were crisper on silver while also having a more brilliant tone, whereas gold had rounder articulations and warmth.

I'm currently debating between two mouthpiece material options: either 1) fully gold-plated or 2) gold-plated rim & interior cup with a silver exterior. I theorize that option 2 could offer a blend of warmth and crisp articulation, providing the best of both worlds. Any insights are much appreciated!

There is zero difference other than feel on the chops. Zero. You are talking about gold that is in the ballpark of .0002" thick, or 1/20th the thickness of a sheet of paper. It's objectively impossible.

Gold is more slippery AT REST. After a while, oil and grease from your skin will make the difference smaller if not disappear.

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 4:06 am There is zero difference other than feel on the chops. Zero. You are talking about gold that is in the ballpark of .0002" thick, or 1/20th the thickness of a sheet of paper. It's objectively impossible.

0.0002" (200 microinches) is pretty thick for a gold plate. If that's what you are getting from your plater I want you to get my mouthpieces plated. More commonly a plating is about 1/10 that. Silver is normally plated between 50 and 200 micro inches.

Often the gold layer is plated on top of the silver or some other barrier layer or else the gold will dissolve into the brass in a solid-state reaction.

No perceivable difference. But the part you are cutting out of the discussion, the physical feel, could affect how you interact with the mouthpiece, and then change the sound.

I used to be all about gold plated mouthpieces because they would keep my chops from getting torn up. Turns out that keeping your silver plated pieces clean and in their case when you are not using them, and never putting them rim-side down on a table does the same thing. And then silver is superior in feel and grip when you do that.

Silver and gold are fine, but you can get a wider range of options with lexan and stainless steel. Lexan is somewhat stickier than metals and works better in hot and cold temperature variations. Stainless is more dense than the other materials, and definitely changes the sound or feel to the player by giving clarity or bright flavor to the sound/feel.

I haven't played a Zirconium mouthpiece, but that's a solid, not a plated material, very hard and dense, so it should make excellent if expensive mouthpieces.

I agree with everyone else about the plating not affecting the sound aside from possibly the way your chops move on the rim causing some differences. Plating the cup also has no effect.

I think there is one difference that anyone can pick up and that is gold is more expensive.

A personal experience is you need to shave better to not destroy the goldplating on a goldplated mouthpiece. A silverplated mouthpieces I can play without shaving but I always shave before I use a goldplated mouthpiece.

/Tom

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 4:37 am

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 4:06 am There is zero difference other than feel on the chops. Zero. You are talking about gold that is in the ballpark of .0002" thick, or 1/20th the thickness of a sheet of paper. It's objectively impossible.

0.0002" (200 microinches) is pretty thick for a gold plate. If that's what you are getting from your plater I want you to get my mouthpieces plated. More commonly a plating is about 1/10 that. Silver is normally plated between 50 and 200 micro inches.

Often the gold layer is plated on top of the silver or some other barrier layer or else the gold will dissolve into the brass in a solid-state reaction.

I was being generous. Anderson said they go 0001" to .0002"

Silver is cheaper, so that's what I buy.

I'm the video, Joe says it's more like comparing apples and oranges. I think it's more like comparing a honey crisp to a Fuji.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 4:37 am 0.0002" (200 microinches) is pretty thick for a gold plate. If that's what you are getting from your plater I want you to get my mouthpieces plated. More commonly a plating is about 1/10 that.

I don't know what the actual thicknesses are, but I do know that there is definitely a range of them from different sources. For close to ten years I played on gold-plated tuba mouthpieces until I decided that I didn't really like the "slipperiness" of them and went back to silver. I used to play a Schilke 66 back then, started with a silver, then sold that and bought a gold. Some time later I (for some reason I don't remember) sold that, but then later bought another gold Schilke 66. In between I had an independent plater (don't remember his name) plate a couple of mouthpieces for me (including a silver 66). He had a very good reputation and was relatively inexpensive (though not what you'd call "cheap").

The Schilke factory gold plating was fantastic. I don't think I ever saw any sign of wear. The independent job (from the day I got it back) was not at all the same -- even the depth of color in the gold was noticeably different. And after a couple of years it was showing wear.

I have heard that Stork is very good with their plating, but I don't have any experience with that. Their costs don't seem outrageous.

Stork does great plating work.

I once bought a Stork 4S from Mouthpiece Express a decade ago and the gold plating job was excellent.

I remember my band director encouraging me to purchase a goldplated Schilke 50 in high school. The plating job was bomb proof. It was only $79 back then.

jjenkins wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:51 am It was only $79 back then.

Just $9 more than what the plating job would cost you now (excluding shipping and tax ).

I have Wick 4BL mouthpieces in both silver and gold plate. Except for the feel (gold warms up faster and silver sticks to my lips better) they are identical.

Some gold plating is very thin -- decorative gold can be only 5 microinches. This is so thin it will rub off carrying it in your pocket. Also, jeweler gold can be less than 100% (24 karat). These other gold alloys can have nickel or cobalt blended in, which some people are allergic to. If you have your mouthpiece plated anywhere but at a maker's shop, insist on 24 karat gold.

I saw an article once by Scott Laskey about this subject. After reading that he convinced me that silver is best in aiding the small increments of moving the mouthpiece on the lips You need to do..

Buy silver unless you have an allergic issue... I used to have a gold plated schilke 52e2... sure it felt a little better on the lips but ain't worth the price tag.... sold that mouthpiece with my 90s model bach 42 to buy a plywood dbbl bass...