TromboneChat

I am sure there have been various threads about this but I failed to find any so here we go. How common is it to articulate through the teeth for low register notes? I found that is the only way I can get a clear attack down low, I was always taught to never do that so I guess I am just curious. Going higher I articulate higher, which to my knowledge is fairly common but haven't heard much of the inverse.

It's very common.

I had a teacher say that some trombonists articulate with their tongue hitting their lips for low pedal tones, but that it can be muddy and hard to be clean and consistent. He then recommended I do everything in my power to keep my articulations on the roof of my mouth/gums. He then went on to say he suspects Denson Paul Pollard to articulate this way in his trigger pedal and double pedal range and it sounds amazing.

Do what works for you.

As said above, very common, it works for many good basstrombonists.

I used to think it was necessary, but that's changing. I think I am getting better at having a controlled relaxed set that more easily resonates with low pitches. That together with an appropriate mouth volume seems to get the notes to speak more easily. Then the need for articulation declines. The chop tension and mouth volume seem more in-tune with the intended pitch. Without that, yeah, tongue on lips.

I think I do it through the teeth for pedals. But I'm not sure exactly what I do. Don't even think God knows. I think I use it gentle if playing fast notes down there. We have to experiment and see what works. Depends on the music character, long or short notes, ff or pp? We are all different so it depends. Music character can also make you do the correct way for your physics without you even think about what you do.....

Leif

Savio wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 1:56 pm
Leif

Welcome back, Leif!

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 1:59 pm

Savio wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 1:56 pm
Leif

Welcome back, Leif!

Thanks a lot!!

I definitely do articulate through my teeth for very low notes. And I can change it if I really find a need to move my tongue back. But I find that it's most consistent if I just do it that way, especially in the context of connecting my low range to the rest of the instrument.

I articulate through my teeth for low range notes but I move my tongue back as I go higher. I have a bad habit of keeping the articulations through my teeth for all registers but it sounds better if I just do it in the low range.

Savio wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 2:17 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 1:59 pm

Welcome back, Leif!

Thanks a lot!!

Indeed! Welcome back!

Over time, my tongue syllable for valve notes and pedals has changed. I used to tongue between the teeth almost all the time in those registers. I made a choice a few years ago to change it. I wanted a more consistent sound and response/feel from register to register.

Yes, I occasionally do tongue between the teeth still—old habits are hard to replace. Tonguing between the teeth helps the note start more quickly. A lot of horn players use that method, especially low horn, and when playing softly. For me, though, it adds a millisecond of instability once the tongue releases the air stream. My guess is that it somehow distorts the lips… but that’s just a guess.

What has helped the most is Doug’s Set-Breathe-Play, along with consciously placing the tip of my tongue in position during the inhale. In the valve and pedal register, the tip of my tongue is usually right at my front teeth, or perhaps just slightly above them. I often use a Dah, Nah or Lah syllable for the tongue when playing in these registers, especially when playing softly.

The challenge here, compared to tonguing between the teeth, is that the air stream must flow and turn around quickly from inhale to exhale: no pause, no breaking, no holding. Otherwise the millisecond between tongue release and start of note will also cause instability and air-balls.

David Taylor taught that, for G at the bottom of the staff and below, the tongue is between the teeth with the tip of the tongue resting on the top lip. for Ab and above, tongue is on the back of the top teeth. Most of his students do this, myself included. He has a specific set of exercises to get used to the shift.