TromboneChat

So where is the optimum tongue position when single tonguing legato or staccato passages. For legato I tend to use the area above my teeth. For staccato I use the tongue in back of my teeth.
I welcome any ideas.

The optimal placement is the placement that sounds and plays the best. I don't think this will be exactly the same for two different people because we're not all built exactly the same.
In my experience it changes with time for a single person as both our body and our technique evolve – the tongue placement that worked best for me, my body, my technique and my equipment 10 years ago is not the same as what is working best for me right now – let alone between different people.

What Maximilien said: “The optimal placement is the placement that sounds and plays the best.”


Also, for me, the tip of the tongue changes shape and location of contact (where the tongue touches) as needed when using different syllables for articulation. Where the tip of the tongue touches is different for “tah,” “dah,” “nah,” and “lah.”

Experiment.

All good answers. Mine has definitely changed over time. I think the reason it changed for me is that I found better positions but then had to practice and solidify the consistency. Even if you find a better way to do something, you always tend to drift back to what's familiar and used to work.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:07 amExperiment.

Ths is a very good answer

Legato is what I've had most difficulties to master. I think it is because every aspect of technique on the horn needs perfect balance first to make it work. The airflow, tounge and the slide needs to be in perfect sync and in every aspect everything that is done must be done smooth or else it will not come out as smooth.

Where exactly to strike with the tounge probably vary a lot between different players and it probably also varies even within one particular player for both legato and non legato, but generally I think of MY best LEGATO as when I use the lightest possible touch with the tounge. When it comes down to the legato (for me) it means as close as no tounge as possible. It could mean from no tounge to a la-articulation in the roof of a mouth or to a thee/thu-articulation just behind of teeth. For me it depends on both register, volume, tempo, slide movement and character. For me what my tounge does when I play a slow soft jazz ballad in the mid and upper register is different from what my toung does when I play jumping sixteenths in legato passage in one of the Bach Cello Suites. Maybe some do them the same but for me; my tounge is alliowed to do what ever it needs to. As long as it is smooth I'm happy, but I also think a legato always can be better. All legatos on trombone can be looked upon as a failure if you compare to a stringed instrument with a bow. Legato is what I find to be most difficult on the horn and I expect it will never be perfect.

One thing that helped most is when I allowed my tounge to be more flexible with things and not force it to be at one particular place. Of course I've tried that discipline, too, to play everything with the tounge locked in just one certain place It didn't solve my puzzle. What helped to come closer was to allow to use anything that is smooth, and then let the music guide where to put the tounge.

/Tom

Thanks folks. Very helpful suggestions. Will probably continue what I'm doing as I'm still in the ballpark.

Timing dominates placement, like Doug's "n" vs "t".