D Slide for TR 180

[bigbandbone]

I’m playing on a stock TR180 with Glance Bar. It does everything I need it to do.
A friend of mine keeps bugging me to get a D slide for it. He says I’ll like it better.

What playing advantages will a D slide give over the stock flat E slide?

Thanks

[spencercarran]

You can reach low B and low C easier with the D slide.

That's about it. If you're comfortable reaching far enough out for B, then you can leave the stock slide.

[hyperbolica]

You also get a low D in 1st position instead of an Eb. You might consider that an advantage or not. That gives you a Bb triad below the staff in 1st position (pedal Bb, low D, low F) which is more in line with the rest of the partials in 1st position.

[bigbandbone]

You can reach low B and low C easier with the D slide.

That's about it. If you're comfortable reaching far enough out for B, then you can leave the stock slide.

With the D slide, where are low B natural and low C?

[Burgerbob]

You can reach low B and low C easier with the D slide.

That's about it. If you're comfortable reaching far enough out for B, then you can leave the stock slide.

With the D slide, where are low B natural and low C?

C is in 4th, B is a bit past 5th, Bb in 7th.

[bigbandbone]

With the D slide, where are low B natural and low C?

C is in 4th, B is a bit past 5th, Bb in 7th.

Thanks

[AtomicClock]

Maybe your friend is hinting that your arm is too short.

[Sesquitone]

With the D slide, where are low B natural and low C?

C is in 4th, B is a bit past 5th, Bb in 7th.

The first picture below is a diagram constructed by Dr Jurgen Faisst and shown on Doug Yeo's website for the positions of a bass trombone tuned Bb/F/D in answer to an FAQ. This is not drafted to scale (the slide-alone positions are shown more-or-less evenly spaced, as are the attachment positions, except for 6V--whereas the increments between successive positions should expand geometrically* as the slide is lengthened). Also, you don't need all those higher harmonics of the F and D attachments. The second picture shows my attempt at a corrected version drawn to scale; so you can see the relative positions of the seven slide-alone fundamentals, the six F-attachment fundamentals and the five D-attachment fundamentals. As seen, for the D attachment, the first position (D) is with the slide closed; the second attachment position (C#) is roughly half-way between slide-alone 2nd and 3rd; the third attachment position (C) is just a shade past slide-alone 4th; the attachment fourth position (B) lies a little further out than half-way between slide-alone 5th and 6th; and the attachment fifth position (a non-pedal Bb1 and its pedal) lies just a shade short of slide-alone 7th.

The diagram (and the above description relative to slide-alone positions) should be used for initially "finding" the correct positions. But these should be committed to (ear/arm) muscle memory--just like all the other slide-alone and F-attachment positions. When playing, do not rely on thinking of (F or D) attachment positions as "altered" slide-alone positions. Instead, treat them as inherent positions on bass trombones tuned in F or D, respectively.

_________
*By the factor 1.059 463 ...--the 12th-root of 2.



.

[ddsbstrb]

I would recommend two things:

1. As a former owner of a great TR-180, modified after I dealt with that Glantz Magic Trigger, for a year or so, by the late Larry Minick, I would say do both at same time. Get a good brass repairman to split the triggers, as there are, in 2024, good brass repair techs who could do this mod for you all around the US. You will see some of the major repair techs even posting a great deal on Chat, daily.

2. While getting your triggers split into thumb & middle finger, get the repair tech make you a open wrap D slide. That should be a doable repair by a good repair tech, who is into modifications, like Mathew Walker, Eric Edwards, and others.

My TR-180 was so much easier to play, with just those two mods. Sadly, in a moment of pure stupidity, I sold that bass trombone. Wish I never had made that decision.

BTW, I am old enough I have spent a lot of time on all three dependant tunings.......Long E, Eb, and D, on a Reynolds, Holton, Conn and Yamaha dependent bass bones. I like D.



Good luck on your TR-180 bbb! Some great answers from others, bravo!

[Sesquitone]

In addition to putting on the D crook, you might consider shortening the F-attachment receiver tubes to accept an F# (optional) crook. There are several advantages to the dependent tuning: Bb/F#/D. Giving an evenly spread Bb augmented triad between the first and second Bb harmonics with the slide closed. Many players of the (by now 'traditional') independent tuning Bb/F-Gb-D find that they use the Gb (F#) trigger almost to the exclusion of the F-natural for handy attachment alternates. The F and Gb attachments, being only a semitone apart, are really too close to each other. The less common independent tuning, Bb/F-G-'Eb', spreads the harmonics of the two attachments further apart (the Bollinger tuning spreads them only half as much). But both of these tunings require a longer reach between B1 and Bb1 relative to the D tuning. By far the best independent combination is to actuate the G-natural attachment with the thumb trigger and then lower the other (finger-trigger) attachment to E (tuned 20¢ sharp), giving a perfectly in-tune (double-trigger) D: Bb/G(thumb)-E-(finger)-D(double). This, of course, is compatible with a (single-valve) Bb/G tenor—which is well known to be far superior to the traditional Bb/F combination (not even close!). Optional tunings should be explored more fully—we don't need to be locked into the traditional (thumb-trigger-actuated) perfect-fourth attachment.

[brassmedic]

Sorry if this sounds nitpicky, but it's a Glantz bar, not a Glance bar.

[WGWTR180]

Sorry if this sounds nitpicky, but it's a Glantz bar, not a Glance bar.

Well I will say that when I tried using the Glantz setup my thumb kept Glancing off of the Glantz bar.