TromboneChat

I have been playing a DE LT N102 C+ D3 on my King 2B Silvertone up until now. I spoke with Doug a week or so ago, asking him about the use of B/B+ cups with the King 2B with a D2/D3 shank for lead playing.

We got on the topic of shanks for King 2Bs and he told me he had determined that both the D2 and D3 are suboptimal for small dual bores. The D2 is way too tight, and the D3 is better, but not ideal because the low register is too open and unstable, which is something I have noticed in the past as well.

ENTER NEW PRODUCT: The D2.5 Shank. Doug created this to address the weaknesses of both the D2 and D3 for small dual bores, specifically.
The D2.5 is designed with the overall openness of the D3 but with the added bonus of a tighter and more focused low register.

Doug was so kind to send me a sample to see what I thought, which is another testament to his incredible customer service. I received the D2.5 today and compared it with my D3 on my King 2B Silvertone. Oh man, I think I’ve found the golden mouthpiece for this horn.

As expected, the horn still plays plenty open throughout all the registers but the lower register feels A LOT more stable and focused. It’s way easier to keep the 1st and 2nd Partials in tune, AND the pedal tones are much stronger and easier to lock in as well. The entire low range feels much more secure, focused and it locks in significantly better than with the D3 shank. The middle to upper register remain open and unaffected.

These small dual bores can be finicky, but I believe this shank is the solution. Doug is going to try it on his Olds Recording next and he’s also going to work on a similar design for a C2.5 and maybe others as well! The .5 shank series shows a lot of promise for these dual bores. Also worth noting that I will still be using the D3 shank with my King 3BF.

In conclusion, my LT N102, C+, D2.5 is my new setup. What a great design refinement of one of his most versatile mouthpiece combinations.

Thanks so much Doug!

I played a month-long show on my 2B just so I could really get used to it, and that's when I decided to make it better.
The Recording is another horn that I think could benefit, and probably the other Olds small horns, but that's all I have to experiment on.

OompaLoompia wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:59 pm
As expected, the horn still plays plenty open throughout all the registers but the lower register feels A LOT more stable and focused. It’s way easier to keep the 1st and 2nd Partials in tune, AND the pedal tones are much stronger and easier to lock in as well. The entire low range feels much more secure, focused and it locks in significantly better than with the D3 shank. The middle to upper register remain open and unaffected.

Hi....I totally concur!

I was fortunate to be a 'guinea pig' for Doug and this shank and offer some feedback when he was developing this shank. I just checked with him to see if you and I are using the same shank build, and he said yes.

I'm on a 1957 King 2B SilverSonic, and am loving it. The 2.5 shank really hit the sweet spot between the 2 and 3 shanks for sure. Those are both still useable for sure, but the 2.5 is just better all over the range of the whole horn.

For me, I have a LTN103 rim. I found the C+ to be a little tight, and I'm using the D cup. The gigs I'm doing are long blows all over the range of the horn (R&B/Soul/Funk band, an original jazz/classical chamber group, big bands, weddings, etc.) This horn and mouthpiece setup is perfect!

I can even play some classical etudes successfully now on the 2B as well. Not quite as easy as on an 88H, but this 2.5 shank makes for confident playing knowing that the ranges of the horn will just 'fall into place'.

(P.S....I have to thank Doug for a lot of Reinhardt work over the last couple of years as well....that's been the greatest revelation and shot in the arm for me!)

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:08 pm I played a month-long show on my 2B just so I could really get used to it, and that's when I decided to make it better.
The Recording is another horn that I think could benefit, and probably the other Olds small horns, but that's all I have to experiment on.

Given that the Recording has a significantly larger bore than a 2B, I'll be interested to hear how the experiment turns out.

I'd be willing to loan you a .485"/.500" Olds (Super or similar) for testing (I do seem to have quite a few of them). Drop me a line if you're interested and we'll see if we can work out the logistics.

If you play a King 2B or any Olds dual bore small shank horn, and have bought a C cup (any series) from me in the past 2-3 years, please contact me. PM me here, or email.

Would it be suitable for a Conn 32H?

Would this be an option to consider for a 24H?

No

No.
I'm looking for dual bore horn players ONLY to test a new C2.5.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 4:37 pm If you play a King 2B or any Olds dual bore small shank horn, and have bought a C cup (any series) from me in the past 2-3 years, please contact me. PM me here, or email.

Would that include C+?
I have an Olds Recording and a 2B valve trombone. My current set up with the C+ is great on my King 3B and 3B+.

You should probably try a D2.5 when I make more, right now I don't have any.

I'm only looking for C cup players right now.

One variable at a time.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:07 am You should probably try a D2.5 when I make more, right now I don't have any.

I’ll look out for an update on that.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:33 amNo

Thanks! Missed the dual bore thing. #lackingkingknowledge

Recent convert to the DE system here.

I have the LT102 with C+ cup and the D2.5, D3 and D4 shanks.

With my 2B Silvertone, the D2.5 just works better than the D3, which in turn is superb on my 3B/F. I assume the differences in the shanks are not all that big, it’s only a half size, but really it does make a difference.

On the 2B, the reasons I prefer the D2.5 are that it is still open and free in the upper range but slightly more focussed in the lower and mid ranges. My 2B tends to play on the bigger side for such a small dual bore setup so having that little bit more precision makes us useful.

On the 3B, the D2.5 also works quite well but the D3 has the edge as I believe the 3B plays naturally a bit tighter in the upper range so a slightly bigger shank (or whatever voodoo is in there) makes the 3B play easier for me.

Kudos to Doug for not standing still with his designs, he identified a potential improvement and has expanded his range to cover it.

MrHCinDE wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:41 am On the 2B, the reasons I prefer the D2.5 are that it is still open and free in the upper range but slightly more focussed in the lower and mid ranges. My 2B tends to play on the bigger side for such a small dual bore setup so having that little bit more precision makes us useful.

Kudos to Doug for not standing still with his designs, he identified a potential improvement and has expanded his range to cover it.

I totally agree with you! I'm using a '57 2B SilverSonic and the D2.5 is fantastic through all the ranges.

I now have a C2.5 for C cups, and also C3.5 and D3.5 for larger dual bores like .500/.525

I'n not sure yet about .525/.547 horns. I'll be working on that.

I’ve got a stock 525/547 horn you can try out now if you want. Still have to figure out when I can make the trek over to DC again

I tried the D3.5 on my 500-525 Nils Landgren setup and can say that it works really well. The lower register is more stable and the horn more even throughout. I’m waiting to try out the C3.5 as well soon and will report back.

I tried Doug’s new D2.5 shank with an LT 104N/C setup on my ‘58 Olds Recording. I had a 3 hour rehearsal and 2 hour jazz concert this weekend. It allowed for excellent core, balanced registers up and down the horn, and improved endurance. Well done, Doug!