Airmen of Note Jazz Trombone Audition

[hettbone]

Trombone community,

I’m excited to announce that the Airmen of Note is holding trombone auditions. This is a remarkable job with great salary, benefits, and upwards mobility. In fact, I almost don’t want to call it a “job” because most of the time, it honestly doesn’t feel like one. I’m currently living one of my dreams, performing in an ensemble that can tackle the great big band repertoire that many of us band nerds have aspired to. It’s so fun making music and traveling the country with such talented musicians. At this very moment I’m with the USAF Band in Edinburgh, Scotland just as an example of some of the exciting travel opportunities.

If you or someone you know is interested in auditioning, please consider looking over the information in the flyer and check out the audition requirements in the link below. Also, feel free to share the flyer and link elsewhere. If you have further questions, feel free to dm me or message the gmail account listed in the flyer.

www.music.af.mil/auditions/

[tbdana]

What is the rationale for the maximum age of 39?

[hettbone]

What is the rationale for the maximum age of 39?

The maximum age of enlistment is something that the USAF and US Military as a whole sets. It's to help ensure service members join at peak physical health/performance. As members of the USAF Band, this is simply one of the guidelines we must follow for our audition process despite how many great musicians and potential candidates there are over the age of 39.

[Doug Elliott]

I've been wondering who's leaving... None of you guys have been there that long.

...says the guy who only did two enlistments.

[harrisonreed]

What is the rationale for the maximum age of 39?

It's not just about physical fitness. There is a maximum age for military service, and they want to ensure people enlisting can make it to 20 years and get retirement benefits. If you entered after that, at some point when you are supposed to go 'indefinite' or 'career', you would go to reenlist for that and not be able to because it would put you past 60 years of age. And then you'd be forced out. You literally can't finish a career if you join at 40.

The air force might allow enlisted to remain in service until 62, but again, there are rules about extending your required service upon promotion so you would have to refuse promotions at the end of your career if there wasn't the age 39 rule.

[Macbone1]

It lasts less than 2 months, but something to consider is being a basic trainee at age 39 (38, 37, 36, etc). Maybe you will turn 40 during basic! You will be in there with 18 and 19 yr olds and 20-somethings, and you will be older than all the drill sergeants who are treating you and everyone else like total scum.

It really IS a great gig but you have to pass the military entrance physical and go through Basic to get it.

[tbdana]

Yeah "military rules." People keep saying how this gig (and the others like it) is a music gig and that you're not required to be a regular soldier/sailor/marine/airman. This is supposedly a selling point of the gig. But if that's so, I'm wondering why the age discrimination.

Fitness is fitness regardless of age. A friend of mine is 74 and just completed an Ironman triathlon, something I'll bet not more than five people in the Air Force could do right now (Google found only two). So it's not about fitness. And I really doubt they're so concerned about people collecting retirement benefits that they would prevent the best candidate from getting the gig because they suspect they might quit before 20 years of service (and these days you could hire someone 60 years old and be able to expect them to play trombone for 20 years).

And if the gig is music, you'd think they'd want the best people for that gig, regardless of age. I mean, if they're not expected to pick up a gun and go to war, then exactly what purpose does the 39-year age cutoff serve? If they can pick up a trombone and play the bejeezus out of it, why would they care how old that person is, so long as they are of legal age and can physically do the gig?

Or is this the kind of gig where they might say, "Okay, you're no longer a trombone player, we need you to go to war with us. Here's your M-16, get on the plane!" and that's why the cutoff?

[Burgerbob]

It's a military job.

[harrisonreed]

Whoever gets the job will love it.

[Finetales]

I once auditioned for the Air Force Ceremonial Brass in college. Before going to the audition, I had to meet with the local USAF recruiter and get all the required physical/medical checks done. I have excellent eyesight, but I have entirely lacked depth perception since birth because my eyes are misaligned and can only be used one at a time. The recruiter basically told me "we'll let you audition, but you likely won't be allowed to enlist in the Air Force because of your eyes."

Point being, the US military does not care if you are enlisting as a musician or a rifleman. Every post needs to be manned by an able-bodied soldier. You don't need depth perception to play trombone, but to the Air Force, you are an airman and must be fit as such.

[tbdana]

I once auditioned for the Air Force Ceremonial Brass in college. Before going to the audition, I had to meet with the local USAF recruiter and get all the required physical/medical checks done. I have excellent eyesight, but I have entirely lacked depth perception since birth because my eyes are misaligned and can only be used one at a time. The recruiter basically told me "we'll let you audition, but you likely won't be allowed to enlist in the Air Force because of your eyes."

Point being, the US military does not care if you are enlisting as a musician or a rifleman. Every post needs to be manned by an able-bodied soldier. You don't need depth perception to play trombone, but to the Air Force, you are an airman and must be fit as such.

Yeah, that's basically what I thought.

[gbedinger]

...says the guy who only did two enlistments.

[Matt K]

How long is an enlistment?

[Doug Elliott]

Air Force is 4 years. But you have to re-enlist before your 4 years is over (so they don't get stuck if you suddenly decide not to re-enlist), so I was in 7 years and 4 months. Most of the band members stay at least 20 so they get retirement. It's a great gig and I should probably have stayed in but I really wasn't interested in being career Air Force and dealing with all of the military stuff.

[MBurner]

Yeah "military rules." People keep saying how this gig (and the others like it) is a music gig and that you're not required to be a regular soldier/sailor/marine/airman. This is supposedly a selling point of the gig. But if that's so, I'm wondering why the age discrimination.

Fitness is fitness regardless of age. A friend of mine is 74 and just completed an Ironman triathlon, something I'll bet not more than five people in the Air Force could do right now (Google found only two). So it's not about fitness. And I really doubt they're so concerned about people collecting retirement benefits that they would prevent the best candidate from getting the gig because they suspect they might quit before 20 years of service (and these days you could hire someone 60 years old and be able to expect them to play trombone for 20 years).

And if the gig is music, you'd think they'd want the best people for that gig, regardless of age. I mean, if they're not expected to pick up a gun and go to war, then exactly what purpose does the 39-year age cutoff serve? If they can pick up a trombone and play the bejeezus out of it, why would they care how old that person is, so long as they are of legal age and can physically do the gig?

Or is this the kind of gig where they might say, "Okay, you're no longer a trombone player, we need you to go to war with us. Here's your M-16, get on the plane!" and that's why the cutoff?

This is not the whole picture.
To win the audition is half the battle. You are a part of the military if you sign on the dotted line and have to meet the physical and mental qualifications because you are part of the military- if you have an issue, the military (and taxpayer) is responsible for your care. Hypertension, mental health, oral visual aural care, is all important. For instance, I have horrifically nearsighted vision. But, it’s correctable by glasses, so I got a waiver when I joined. And from experience, not many people get in better shape as they age! (despite your friends amazing achievement at 74.) Heart issues, cancer, diabetes, all gets taken care of by the military and it is expensive. They want you before you get these serious problems, and want to prevent major health problems.
Age discrimination has been answered- you have a hard cap of 60 years of age mandatory retirement in the military because the entire system is a military system. With 20 years in, and a presumed minimum E6 rank and tricare for life, your pension is quite lucrative. The closest system to that I can see is that of many European orchestras who have a forced retirement age of 60-65. Perhaps if more organizations did this, there would be more opportunity for young people to win positions in orchestras. But that’s a topic for a different day. In the Army our hard cap is 35 to enter- though now with a recruiting crisis, rules can be slightly bent for a 36 year old. But the system wants you at your physical best- until 60 or so. It’s not my system, but you don’t see many infantry people past 40. Whether you’re a secretary in the Army or a Rifleman in the Marines, the standard applies to everyone.
The end point is that this is one of the best jobs in the world, and anyone interested should pursue it with full force.

[harrisonreed]

One more note on the age discrimination:

It is completely possible to sustain work a related injury during your duties as a service member. This could be during physical training or testing, loading / unloading, combat, or even just overuse of your joints playing trombone. It is completely possible to be deemed medically unfit after a injury, and then medically discharged with a disability benefit that could be 50-100% of your base pay. Who is most likely to sustain these injuries?