TromboneChat

Just wondering if any of you have the same experiences that I have, and if anyone may know the mechanics behind them. My sound seems to be more focused and melodic with the Bach mouthpieces and more breathy and less focused with the Yamaha mouthpieces, even in my YBL-612.

Apples vs. Oranges.

If that's the case, I recommend you use the Bach mouthpieces.

Small sample bias.

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:55 am Just wondering if any of you have the same experiences that I have, and if anyone may know the mechanics behind them. My sound seems to be more focused and melodic with the Bach mouthpieces and more breathy and less focused with the Yamaha mouthpieces, even in my YBL-612.

I have a lot of mouthpieces (more than 100), both Bachs and Yamahas. I haven't experienced any of them to be more breathy or less focused and vice versa, nothing that can be said in general. I have a few unmarked mouthpieces that are real bad and unfocused and I have one special small Holton mouthpiece with a very thick rim that gives me a very airy sound, it could be useful with a mic as long as the sound stays that way.

/Tom

I think it is very difficult make a comparison, because Bach mouthpiece's specs are very different from Yamaha. If we would do a real comparison we should have two identical specs from both makers, but it is almost impossible.

Which model VS which model?

They still cannot be compared directly, but it may gives some clue on the issue.

Just use whatever works for you and don’t get caught up in what other people use or what some big name player endorses.
Too many people hear with their eyes in this business.

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:55 am Just wondering if any of you have the same experiences that I have, and if anyone may know the mechanics behind them. My sound seems to be more focused and melodic with the Bach mouthpieces and more breathy and less focused with the Yamaha mouthpieces, even in my YBL-612.

So I ask, and I'm not being snarky. Why even keep playing the Yamaha piece? Dump it as I think you've answered your own question.

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:42 am

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:55 am Just wondering if any of you have the same experiences that I have, and if anyone may know the mechanics behind them. My sound seems to be more focused and melodic with the Bach mouthpieces and more breathy and less focused with the Yamaha mouthpieces, even in my YBL-612.

So I ask, and I'm not being snarky. Why even keep playing the Yamaha piece? Dump it as I think you've answered your own question.

No worries, I appreciate all comments. I am more interested in the mechanics of the embouchure as it relates to mouthpiece types, just used my experiences as an example. Do smaller back bores help or hinder focused tones? How do wider and narrower rims effect the embouchure? What is the effect of deeper versus shallower cups? I have found that the older Bach 5GS mouthpieces have smaller back bores than the newer ones. That the cloned Bach’s, I.e. Glory, Paitini, etc. have larger back bores than the same numbered Bachs. I have found what I like, vintage 5GS for tenor work and vintage 1 1/2 G for bass bone playing. I have read a few books and articles about embouchures and find that even the so called experts have varied opinions. Just curious about the science of the embouchure. Thank you all.

Just remember, if there was one perfect set of parameters for a mouthpiece we'd all be playing it. But we're all different. Different people respond better to different mouthpieces. Generally we all use mouthpieces within a certain range of parameters. You don't use a 1G sized mouthpiece on a small bore tenor, and you don't use a 12E mouthpiece on a bass trombone. But there is a wide range of mouthpieces that work with different instruments for different people.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 8:04 am Just remember, if there was one perfect set of parameters for a mouthpiece we'd all be playing it. But we're all different. Different people respond better to different mouthpieces. Generally we all use mouthpieces within a certain range of parameters. You don't use a 1G sized mouthpiece on a small bore tenor, and you don't use a 12E mouthpiece on a bass trombone. But there is a wide range of mouthpieces that work with different instruments for different people.

IMHO I am in full agreement with your statement. I am 62 years old and coming back after over a decade of not playing any brass instruments due to a very incorrect assumption that I could not play with full upper dentures. However, in the short time I have returned I have discovered that recovering from bad habits takes much longer than doing it right in the beginning. I am just trying to determine what is right for me. I believe in trial and error, just would like to lessen the errors as much as possible.

Which specific mouthpieces were you using from Bach and Yamaha?

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:35 am Which specific mouthpieces were you using from Bach and Yamaha?

I have settled on the 5GS for Bach Omega circa mid 90’s 0.547 bore tenor w/F and 1 1/2 G for my YBL-612 dual inline dependent Bb/F/D bass bone, they seem to work best imho. I have tried many from clones to Bach 12E to 1G and the YAC’s from the 40’s all the way up to a 59L. I realize it may be due to my embouchure change because of my dentures or I am just plain out of shape. Just doing due diligence to hopefully decrease the trials and errors.

Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:57 am I have settled on the 5GS for Bach Omega circa mid 90’s 0.547 bore tenor w/F and 1 1/2 G for my YBL-612 dual inline dependent Bb/F/D bass bone, they seem to work best imho.

Perfectly reasonable choices. Keep practicing, and enjoying playing with ensembles. You'll keep improving.

5GS is never a bad landing point to begin a large tenor journey... That's where I started after comparing it with a Schilke 51 (too deep and muddy sounding) and a Yamaha 51C4 (lacked the "sparkle" the Bach had but was MUCH better than the Schilke).

As you continue developing and strengthening your embouchure, you may find you need less resistance to really get your sound moving. That's why, after some time, I needed to move on from the 5GS with its back end derived from the 6½AL.

Today I use either a Bach 5GL (a little deeper but with the larger throat and back bore of the standard large shank Bach pieces) for most uses, or a 5G (deeper still, but has the clarity the Schilke 51 lacked) for when i need a larger sound.

Yamaha blanks sound generally better to my ears than bach blanks.