TromboneChat

I'm not sure what it's formally called, but as when I'm sawing pretty aggressively on some nasty licks and I suddenly feel the slide . . . shift a bit, and after inspecting, find a small "warp" in the outer slide. I know I didn't bump it - it happened just from physical stress, basically.

I'm currently in the pit playing 2nd bone for a local theatre production of Singin' In The Rain. It has surprised me somewhat with how much playing and how challenging of a show it is. But the incident in question happened not during the "mean looking" key of G-flat tenor clef "Moses Supposes", but (I think) a "Broadway Revival" sequence that has my part jumping to a fairly crazy bass line double that involves our favorite pitch range on trombone:



thru



Side note: I thought there was note icons for every basic position in the staff, but I don't see a note for first space, i.e., bass clef A?

Anyway, I don't remember doing this damage specifically before - maybe I have and didn't notice. Any advice for future prevention is very welcome.

Not quite following what happened with your instrument. Did you feel it “shift” or “catch” as you were coming back in from 7th position? If yes, it might have been because the outer slide was out so far that it was no longer parallel or true with the inner slide. All outer slides tilt downwards slightly on the last 1/2 inch or so of the stockings due to gravity. If your slide was at that point and you brought it in abruptly, without making them parallel first, you could inflict damage on either/both the inner slide or outer slide.

This horn is jealous of the other excellent horns in your stable, and is craving the attention of a slide tech.

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:47 pm Not quite following what happened with your instrument. Did you feel it “shift” or “catch” as you were coming back in from 7th position? If yes, it might have been because the outer slide was out so far that it was no longer parallel or true with inner slide. All outer slides tilt downwards slightly on the last 1/2 inch or so of the stockings due to gravity. If your slide was at that point and you brought it in abruptly, without making them parallel first, you could inflict damage on either/both the inner slide or outer slide.

I can't say if I yanked it from a long 7th position, but I guess it's possible. There were B-naturals involved.

So you're saying that you notice this damage occurs while you're playing? How are you holding the slide!? Lighten off on the death grip!!

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:34 am So you're saying that you notice this damage occurs while you're playing?

The easiest solution is to not play.

***

"Doc, it hurts when I do this."

"So don't do that."

On a more serious note, I played that show a few years ago and I remember a few fast, awkward licks.

Is the pit cramped for space? Do you have enough slide room in front and side-to-side? Maybe in your haste to play the lick you're twisting or torquing the slide slightly?

So ... perhaps the answer is just be mindful? To be careful to pull straight back when you're moving quickly off of 7th? Fortunately in music, unlike some other professions, we usually know what's coming up and can prepare for it!

mvm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:41 pm So ... perhaps the answer is just be mindful? To be careful to pull straight back when you're moving quickly off of 7th? Fortunately in music, unlike some other professions, we usually know what's coming up and can prepare for it!

Don't know about everyone else, but I don't really "push" and "pull" the slide. It's more like throwing it and then catching it again. Grip is very loose. When I get to 6th my thumb isn't even touching the brace. I don't feel like it would even be possible to torque the slide with my fingers while playing.

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:31 am On a more serious note, I played that show a few years ago and I remember a few fast, awkward licks.

Is the pit cramped for space? Do you have enough slide room in front and side-to-side? Maybe in your haste to play the lick you're twisting or torquing the slide slightly?

Cramped, yes.

Ultimately, I think my culprit is just gravity. There's only so much one can do when going from 6th or 7th position to 1st in the space of an eighth note at fast tempos. Actually, this makes for a pretty good argument to play with the bell pointed at the floor.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:46 pm

mvm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:41 pm So ... perhaps the answer is just be mindful? To be careful to pull straight back when you're moving quickly off of 7th? Fortunately in music, unlike some other professions, we usually know what's coming up and can prepare for it!

Don't know about everyone else, but I don't really "push" and "pull" the slide. It's more like throwing it and then catching it again. Grip is very loose. When I get to 6th my thumb isn't even touching the brace. I don't feel like it would even be possible to torque the slide with my fingers while playing.

Are You actually able to cause a lot of damage to the slide by holding to hard… ? If You also twist it while playing i would understand, but shouldnt the slide be sturdy enough in it selg to withstand a little muscle (not that its recommendable)?

Tbarh wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:42 am

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:46 pm
Don't know about everyone else, but I don't really "push" and "pull" the slide. It's more like throwing it and then catching it again. Grip is very loose. When I get to 6th my thumb isn't even touching the brace. I don't feel like it would even be possible to torque the slide with my fingers while playing.

Are You actually able to cause a lot of damage to the slide by holding to hard… ? If You also twist it while playing i would understand, but shouldnt the slide be sturdy enough in it selg to withstand a little muscle (not that its recommendable)?

I don't know, and I'm not going to find out. Holding the slide rigidly doesn't make sense, and not because of fear of damaging the slide, but because it's just more efficient to use momentum to your advantage. Watch a good drummer - do they push the stick into the drumhead and pull it back up? No, they hold it so that it is hinged at the tail end and allow the momentum of the stick to drive it into the drumhead and then let it rebound back off. Does a professional golfer hold the club rigidly and muscle it into the ball? No, they let the momentum of the club do the work. A loose, flexible grip just works better than a rigid grip.

All speculation until the slide is given a thorough evaluation by a good tech.
Now might be a good time.
Possibly the problem is totally unrelated to 7th position.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:44 pm

Tbarh wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:42 am
Are You actually able to cause a lot of damage to the slide by holding to hard… ? If You also twist it while playing i would understand, but shouldnt the slide be sturdy enough in it selg to withstand a little muscle (not that its recommendable)?

I don't know, and I'm not going to find out. Holding the slide rigidly doesn't make sense, and not because of fear of damaging the slide, but because it's just more efficient to use momentum to your advantage. Watch a good drummer - do they push the stick into the drumhead and pull it back up? No, they hold it so that it is hinged at the tail end and allow the momentum of the stick to drive it into the drumhead and then let it rebound back off. Does a professional golfer hold the club rigidly and muscle it into the ball? No, they let the momentum of the club do the work. A loose, flexible grip just works better than a rigid grip.

To have a loose grip is unquestionably the most efficient way to hold the slide while playing..However, some young beginners are struggling with «letting Go» of the slide out of fear of dropping it.. There is also a lot of young students having bad slides, but that could come from other kinds of misuse..

Tbarh wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:12 am

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:44 pm

I don't know, and I'm not going to find out. Holding the slide rigidly doesn't make sense, and not because of fear of damaging the slide, but because it's just more efficient to use momentum to your advantage. Watch a good drummer - do they push the stick into the drumhead and pull it back up? No, they hold it so that it is hinged at the tail end and allow the momentum of the stick to drive it into the drumhead and then let it rebound back off. Does a professional golfer hold the club rigidly and muscle it into the ball? No, they let the momentum of the club do the work. A loose, flexible grip just works better than a rigid grip.

To have a loose grip is unquestionably the most efficient way to hold the slide while playing..However, some young beginners are struggling with «letting Go» of the slide out of fear of dropping it.. There is also a lot of young students having bad slides, but that could come from other linds of misuse..

Ha ha, no doubt. I had the unfortunate experience in middle school of losing my slide and having it fly into the flute section.

For the record, I have a very loose slide grip in general. My hand shape is basically a claw and I throw and catch the slide when it makes sense. IMHO that's not just for speed work, but for proper legato technique as well. That slide has to snap fast, without impacting my face, for the sound to be smooth.

I was able to get it to a repair tech and he did improve the slide noticeably, for which I am grateful. It turns out that in Michigan this time of year, it's actually a terrible time of year to need emergency slide maintenance, due to all the schools in the area finishing up their school years and sending their instruments to all the shops. Yet another reason that I'm starting to believe that any serious trombonist should include in their trombone equipment set basic slide maintenance tools - not just cleaning rods. But - this slide is still not right, and I don't think it's the tech's fault. It feels too loose. It may just be getting too beat up and I may want to consider getting the outer slide replaced. I don't really know how to evaluate that idea properly, and unfortunately to have a tech give it a more thorough evaluation, I have to wait.