TromboneChat

So I've been wanting to get back into playing my trombone after a nearly 20 year hiatus. I used to be pretty good, for a highschooler, but I've basically forgotten everything. I figured a good first step would be to do some maintenance, to get the trombone back in good working order, so I thought I'd sign up here and ask for advice!

I have a YSL-648R, from the 90s; it's in pretty good shape, only a few dings here and there, but the F-trigger is stuck. The mouthpiece also appears to have some unusual discoloration and now has a lot of black on it (it sounds like this could be tarnish). It had been hanging from a wall-mount as essentially a piece of art for the past several years.

I still have almost all of my old supplies, Yamaha slide cream, Super Slick Tuning Slide Grease, Super Slick Valve Oil - but it does look like at some point in time one of these (most likely the oil) leaked a bit in the storage compartment of the case - all of the items had any oily residue on them. I'm not sure how long they're actually good for, so I'm looking into potentially replacing them.

I also have the cleaning rod that came with the trombone, and I did purchase a snake, since I don't know what happened to my old one.

My current thinking is that I should at least replace the slide cream - from my reading, it looks like Yamaha makes a new lubricant that could potentially work even better than the cream, and with less hassle in application. Any recommendations on tuning slide grease and valve oil? I never used one before, but I think I might want to get a mouthpiece brush as well.

From my reading, it looks like the best course of action would be to flood the F-trigger with oil, to try and get it moving again, and then disassemble it and give it a thorough cleaning, along with the bell itself. Does this sound like a good plan?

Any thoughts on the mouthpiece discoloration? Any tips or advice for anything I haven't thought to ask?

I'll create a separate post in the Teaching & Learning section about this, but if anyone wants to throw out some tips on getting back into trombone after such a long hiatus, and likely forgetting everything, I wouldn't mind.

Thanks!

Before you try to use a new lubricant on your slide, make sure to clean out all the old stuff. There are videos on how to clean a trombone slide using detergent solution and a snake. Once you have cleaned the slide, put a small amount of the new Yamaha lube (it's sometimes called oil, sometimes lube) and work it in. You may need to spray a little water on it to make it really move.

If you aren't familiar with disassembling rotor valves, I'd leave the valve to a tech. You might be able to free it by flooding the rotor with a good valve oil (from the slide receiver end). I'd leave the valve service to the tech. Including new bumpers and new string.

The black stuff on the mouthpiece is most likely tarnish and can be cleaned with a good silver polish. I used to use Gorham's, but others like Wright's or Flitz.

By the way, this is the right place for the question you asked. If you want guidance in what to use to relearn how to play, ask that in "Teaching and Learning".

Take it to a good band instrument repair person.

Your mouthpiece discoloration is simply tarnish on the silver-plated brass mouthpiece. As Bruce suggested, simply polish (gently) with some good silver polish. This is the time to use the mouthpiece brush if needed. If you brush your teeth after eating / before playing, you'll probably never again need the brush - just warm soapy water will keep the mouthpiece clean.

Give your trombone a good cleaning. Start with a bath - lukewarm water and Dawn liquid soap. This is the time to use the snake. Then set the snake aside until the next bath (needed only seldom, like every 3-6 months or less if you keep your trombone clean and dry between playing sessions).

Dry the trombone thoroughly; then apply new high-quality lubricants for your slide and valve. It's worth it to toss the old stuff and start over.

Also as noted, take the trombone to a qualified tech to free the valve and look the trombone over. (The slide may need servicing, even though it seems usable to you.) The tech can also give you recommendations for lubricants and how to apply them.

Adopt a systematic hygiene protocol to clean your trombone after playing. Mine includes:
• An HWP Brass-Saver (soft pull-through brush with a long plastic lead ribbon – will pass through the entire outer slide, including the end crook!) I use the “Tuba” size for my large-bore trombones. This is much gentler, and much more effective, than a wire-coil "snake."
Note that for effective water removal, the Brass-Saver brush should be wiped dry with a small towel between multiple passes through the slide.
• A Yamaha cleaning rod
• Strips of cotton bedsheet (instead of cheesecloth) – about 3" to 4" wide and 36" long – to use with the cleaning rod, and my latest possession:
• A Slide-O-Mix terry "towel sheath" for the cleaning rod to completely dry the slide interiors
(red sheath for small-medium-bore; blue sheath for large-bore slides)
• A microfiber cloth to wipe clean all the exterior lacquered brass surfaces of the trombone.

Since I've adopted this protocol, my slides are all pristine, and I expect that they will stay that way as long as I keep up my trombone hygiene routine.

Take it to a reputable tech for a professional chem cleaning. If the valve's seized up then it probably wasn't put away completely clean all those years ago and the gunk will be pretty severe. Full service overhaul might run a couple hundred bucks, or possibly more if there's more serious damage you overlooked.

The mouthpiece is no big deal, just tarnish as noted. Wipe it down with a silver polishing cloth and it'll look brand new again.

I would definitely take it in for a general service, especially if the valve is seized up. Whatever is in there that is causing it to be like that is not going to go away, and a chem cleaning would definitely be in order.

For the mouthpiece, wash it with soap and make sure that all the gunk is cleaned off. Then take a glass or ceramic bowl (I use corningware), put some aluminum foil (dull side up) on the bottom, and put the mouthpiece in with some baking soda. Then pour BOILING water into the container and roll the mouthpiece around a bit. This should transfer the sulfides to the aluminum foil, and will give you a nice shiny mouthpiece again.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:21 am For the mouthpiece, wash it with soap and make sure that all the gunk is cleaned off. Then take a glass or ceramic bowl (I use corningware), put some aluminum foil (dull side up) on the bottom, and put the mouthpiece in with some baking soda. Then pour BOILING water into the container and roll the mouthpiece around a bit. This should transfer the sulfides to the aluminum foil, and will give you a nice shiny mouthpiece again.

Do this. It works.
--Andy in OKC

afugate wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:22 pm

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:21 am For the mouthpiece, wash it with soap and make sure that all the gunk is cleaned off. Then take a glass or ceramic bowl (I use corningware), put some aluminum foil (dull side up) on the bottom, and put the mouthpiece in with some baking soda. Then pour BOILING water into the container and roll the mouthpiece around a bit. This should transfer the sulfides to the aluminum foil, and will give you a nice shiny mouthpiece again.

Do this. It works.

And, unlike polishes, won't remove any silver.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:28 pm
If you aren't familiar with disassembling rotor valves, I'd leave the valve to a tech. You might be able to free it by flooding the rotor with a good valve oil (from the slide receiver end). I'd leave the valve service to the tech. Including new bumpers and new string.

I agree with having a tech do the disassembly. It isn't hard but it is intimidating the first time, and if it's really stuck you don't know what's broken.

I think if I were flooding the rotor with oil I'd probably pull the attachment tuning slide and fill from that end. Since the valve won't move, won't the oil from the slide end just go past it? You could flood it from the tuning slide and let it sit on the stand for a while. That assumes your tuning slides will both pull of course. On mine which is not stuck I oil from the receiver end, but with the valve closed, then work it a bit with the rotor horizontal.

Also the rotor isn't the only thing that can bind, check the linkage too.

Hey, all, just wanted to give an update! (Meant to do this quite a while ago)

First, like an idiot, I tried to sort out the sticking rotary valve myself, and wound up seeming to warp the rotating pin on the valve. I couldn't actually reassemble it, because the piece that went over it no longer fit. Rather than risk more damage, I found a nearby tech.

If anybody else happens to be in the area, I can recommend The Baltimore Brass company, in Catonsville, MD. For a very reasonable price, they gave it a chemical bath, and got the rotary valve back in working order. I've been playing again for about 3 months, now, and it's been going great. The only real issue I have is that I noticed that the spit valve looks like it's ever so slightly starting to break away from the outer-slide on one end. I wish they'd noticed that, and offered to repair it at the time, since they're not exactly conveniently located to me. Does anyone have experience with issues like that? I don't see it the opening change when I use the spit valve, so I don't think it's in immediate danger of separating further.

How frequently do you all recommend a cleaning (the kind I'd do myself, not a chem bath)? Do you recommend cleaning the whole horn, or just focusing on the inner-/outer- slides? Given the rotary valve, I'd imagine giving it a bath would mean cleaning off and reapplying a lot of more awkward to address lube, whereas the slides would be relatively easy. Fwiw, I'm trying to practice daily, for an hour, though some days it might be less or skipped if I'm too busy.

EDIT: Just saw that you had done an update. You should oil the rotor every week, at least. Normal synthetic rotor oil on the core, bearing oil on the spindle and bearing face. I clean off the inner slides with a soft towel every day. I would swab the outer slide once or twice a week with a rod and slideomix cloth (sheet or cheesecloth works fine too), and snake brush the inner tubes and our slide once or twice a month with soap and warm water.

To answer the OP: I personally would take the rotor apart myself and clean the horn myself, but if you don't feel confident with that take it to a tech for a basic cleaning and to get the rotor working. I would bring the oil and stuff that I use and leave it with the horn, and say "please use this stuff on it if you are going to oil or grease anything".

For me, I use Ultrapure rotor oil, Ultrapure bearing oil, Ultrapure grease, Hetmans ball joint oil, and Yamasnot for the slide.

It's not great to have the tech with on your horn and then use a bunch of incompatible oil they have that is different from the stuff you're going to use.

Aside from your spit valve issue, you may not need to take your trombone to a tech for several years if you rigorously follow a home maintenance / hygiene protocol.

First, the slide:
Adopt a systematic hygiene protocol to clean your trombone after playing. My method incorporates:
• An HWP Brass-Saver (soft pull-through brush with a long plastic lead ribbon – will pass through the entire outer slide, including the end crook!) I use the “Tuba” size for my large-bore trombones. This is much gentler, and much more effective, than a wire-coil "snake."
Note that for effective water removal, the Brass-Saver brush should be wiped dry with a small towel between multiple passes through the slide.
[You can even safely pass the Brass-Saver brush through the bell, starting at the slide receiver end!]
• A Yamaha or Slide-O-Mix cleaning rod;
• Strips of cotton bedsheet (instead of cheesecloth) – about 3" to 4" wide and 36" long – to use with the cleaning rod;
• And my latest possession, a Slide-O-Mix terry "towel sheath" for the cleaning rod to completely dry the slide interiors (red sheath for small-medium-bore; blue sheath for large-bore slides);
• A microfiber cloth to wipe clean all the exterior lacquered brass surfaces of the trombone.

Second, the Valve:
• Remove the valve cap to expose the rotor spindle. Apply a drip or two of Rotor Oil§ to the pivot area.
• Apply a drop or two of Bearing & Linkage Oil§ to each bearing point of the valve and actuating linkage. (Oil anything that moves against another part. A little oil goes a long way.
• Hold your bell section vertically, so that both the bell and slide receiver are pointed toward the ceiling. Actuate the rotor valve by pushing the valve lever. Then drop several (4-5) drops of Valve Oil§ into the valve receiver so that the oil hits the business portion of the valve rotor. Actuate the valve a few times to spread the oil over the rotor core surface. Turn the bell over (so that it points downward) and repeat the actuation a few times, while capturing any excess oils that spills out.
• When needed, use a very small amount of tuning slide grease§ to the tuning slide, to keep it moving freely. Remove any excess.
{§ I use Hetman Lubricants for all these tasks.]
• Dry and polish the bell with a microfiber cloth.

Put the trombone away and store dry, until you relubricate the slide play it again.