TromboneChat

Happy to reply to some questions, I play trumpet so don't expect too much from me

Also, I have to thank Glen for telling me about the new TromboneChat website!

ARResonance wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:05 am Also, I have to thank Glen for telling me about the new TromboneChat website!

Welcome to the forum! Glad to see you here; and you’re welcome!

Got a chance to see your lineup at TC Gakki, in Shin-Okubo. Looks pretty cool!

Admittedly I'm not the best at mouthpiece sizing, but I've never understood the numbering system. Is there 'a method to the madness'?

Hi Tony!

Are your bronze trombone mouthpieces still what most people are gravitating towards, or is nickel becoming more popular?

What are the characteristics of each?

Welcome to TromboneChat.

The manufacturer may be a trumpet player, but I've stumbled on two AR Resonance trombone mouthpieces (one small-shank, one large-shank) and found them to be wonderful. Easy to play, nice sound, intonation seems good (as far as a mouthpiece can influence it). Apparently the mouthpiece of choice for LA studio trombonist Alan Kaplan.

How are the inner rim contours? More on the rounder side, or sharper?

Thanks everybody for the warm welcome!

RichC wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:50 pm Admittedly I'm not the best at mouthpiece sizing, but I've never understood the numbering system. Is there 'a method to the madness'?

I have two numbering systems, not even sure why that happened, I wanted to call them something like Medium, Small, Large and so on, then when I started with small shank versions I wanted sizes to not mix with large shank models and I called them with internal diameters in millimeters (which is a more reasonable way of calling mouthpiece sizes, in my opinion).
At that point I already had a huge amount of the Small/Medium/Large ones in the market and I chose not to rename the large shank ones.
It's dumb, I agree...

Then many people started asking for large shank versions of my small shank tops, so I simply kept the same numbering system for those and now I have a mix of sizes that make little sense.
Here's how they currently work:

Tops are divided into 2 main families:

"Non symphonic cups"
These are called with diameters in millimeters, like for example 25.10 - 60. This means the cup has an internal diameter of 25.10 millimeters with a 6.0mm throat size (don't ask why I didn't write 6.0 instead of 60...)
These are spaced every 0.30mm: 24.50, 24.80, 25.10, 25.40, 25.70, 26.00.
Rims are semi round (flattish compared to a Bach)
Two cups available, normal (between a V and a C) and V+ (deeper and more V shaped).
You can have them with either 6.0mm or 6.5mm throats.
You can mix them with small shank backbores (6.0mm or 6.5mm) or with a large backbore (only 6.5mm).
Backbores are available in 3 sizes: Small, Medium and Large.
Even if I consider these to be "non symphonic" models they are widely used in orchestras, especially in small opera theaters.

"Symphonic cups"
Cups have a bigger volume, not too far from what a Greg Black is. Giuliano Rizzotto, first trombone in Milano Symphony Orchestra and main contributor to the design of these mouthpieces, has been a long time Greg Black player. He brought me his Alessi model and asked to experiment with different cups, rims, throat sizes, backbores and so on.
The rims is somewhat similar to that model, the cup has changed a bit, especially in the lower part, with an edgier transition to the throat. Backbores are totally different, there are 4 models, GR0, GR1, GR2, GR3. From the smallest to the most open.
As with my trumpet mouthpieces, the most important part for me is the backbore, I focused most of my work on them to fix intonation issues, to make the blowing consistent and blah blah blah...

The range is: Small, Medium Small, Medium, Medium Large, Large, Very Large, Extra Large (no one plays the XL, it's almost a bass trombone size, some doublers use VL as a bass trombone piece.
Throat size is just 7.2mm, you can adjust the openness feel with different backbores, that's why I don't offer other throat sizes.

When I started I found that many people here in Europe wanted a big diameter of cup but not a deep one, and a small throat, for their bass trombones. Especially those who rarely play the bass.
So I simply expanded the range to Bass Small, Bass Medium, Bass Large and Bass Very Large.

Later I met with many American players who wanted a much deeper cup and a bigger throat.
So I introduced the Deep 80 versions (same names, much deeper cup and 8.0mm throat).
These are now VERY appreciated and represent about 30% of my trombone sales.
They use the usual GR0, 1, 2, 3 backbores but with an 80 throat.

As a custom mouthpiece maker I also offer the possibility to have custom weights, custom cup and rim shapes, I can scan mouthpieces and make Frankenpieces, I do all sorts of engravings (which are particularly cool on trombone pieces as there a much bigger canvas than with trumpet pieces) and I do NOT make one piece trombone mouthpieces (long story, too hard to make with my setup and they don't offer any improvement over two parts pieces).

I make tops in brass, nickel silver, phosphor bronze (yeah, I'm the one who set the trend ), stainless steel, titanium, delrin, Damasteel and buffalo horn (I've got only some 10-15 pieces left, I can't source this material anymore unfortunately!).
Backbores only in brass, nickel and bronze.

Rusty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:17 pm Hi Tony!

Are your bronze trombone mouthpieces still what most people are gravitating towards, or is nickel becoming more popular?

What are the characteristics of each?

Ciao!
I would say that I sell 30% brass, 20% nickel silver and 50% bronze nowadays.
Nickel is gaining momentum especially on small mouthpieces: bebop players love it because response is super quick, the articulation is VERY crisp and the sound is much brighter than brass.
Also marching/street band players love them as they sound very loud.
Some bass trombone players like it as notes start quicker than with brass or bronze but they don't have the same depth of sound bronze have.

Bronze is very popular simply because it sounds much fuller and darker than plain brass and trombone players go for sound (unlike trumpet player that make my life miserable trying to play as high as possible ).

I consider bronze to be a very good material, it easily wins over brass, it's just more expensive and takes more time to machine.
Nickel silver is even more expensive (about 35 euro per Kg nowadays!) but it's pretty easy to machine, even easier than brass.

Druidman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:24 pm How are the inner rim contours? More on the rounder side, or sharper?

The bite (the curve from the rim to the cup) is fairly edgy but the rims are medium flat I would say.
Way more comfy than a typical Bach for sure.
Lip slurs don't seem to be affected but you players can tell me more than I can feel myself.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:15 pm Welcome to TromboneChat.

The manufacturer may be a trumpet player, but I've stumbled on two AR Resonance trombone mouthpieces (one small-shank, one large-shank) and found them to be wonderful. Easy to play, nice sound, intonation seems good (as far as a mouthpiece can influence it). Apparently the mouthpiece of choice for LA studio trombonist Alan Kaplan.

Alan is awesome!
Check Luca Begonia too:

Regarding materials:

Bronze has a faster response, is more resonant, fuller and makes slots more defined compared to brass. Some people say it's darker, which is true on low and middle notes but when you push hard on the high ones it gets brighter in a positive way.
Also, articulation is more precise and if feels easier to play. It's simply a big improvement with no drawbacks compared to brass.

Nickel Silver has the fastest response of all metals, only Buffalo Horn is faster, but it also has lots of body and quite a bright sound.
Due to the extremely quick response it's very easy to achieve a clean a crisp articulation.
This is one of the reasons why Sergei Nakariakov has chosen this as his favorite material for his line of mouthpieces.

Stainless steel is a strange material: has a much darker sound and less clear articulation from the player's point of view but at a distance it feels exactly the same, very piercing and convincing, articulation becomes pretty crisp and projects a lot in front of the player, little on the sides.

Titanium is a lot lighter, response is extremely fast and it's relaxing on the lips. Most people get tired much later than with other materials. It has a metallic sound but a lighter and much brighter than Stainless Steel.
May people choose it also because it doesn't cause allergy of any kind.

Buffalo horn is actually the horn of a buffalo turned to become a mouthpiece top, it's VERY light, extremely hard, you can throw it on the ground and it won't dent. Light speed response, articulation is by far the cleanest and easiest. Woody sound when played low and soft, it becomes a laser when pushed high and loud. It's great for lead players but also for those who play in very cold climates.
It has a very grippy surface that you can make smoother dipping it into olive oil.
It has a very soft feel on the lips and it's less tiring than all other materials.

Damasteel is an extremely expensive and patented kind of Damascus steel made from a company in Sweden. It's two kinds of stainless steel 3D printed and then synthered to become hard.
The pattern inside is predetermined and after etching it into acid the two tones come up.
It sounds and feels exactly like normal stainless steel but it looks incredibly cool.

ARResonance wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:32 am It has a very grippy surface that you can make smoother dipping it into olive oil.

How Italian!

bitbckt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 9:19 am

ARResonance wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:32 am It has a very grippy surface that you can make smoother dipping it into olive oil.

How Italian!

Made with my cousin’s olive taggiasche, from Imperia!

ARResonance wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:20 am Thanks everybody for the warm welcome!

RichC wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:50 pm Admittedly I'm not the best at mouthpiece sizing, but I've never understood the numbering system. Is there 'a method to the madness'?

I have two numbering systems, not even sure why that happened, I wanted to call them something like Medium, Small, Large and so on, then when I started with small shank versions I wanted sizes to not mix with large shank models and I called them with internal diameters in millimeters (which is a more reasonable way of calling mouthpiece sizes, in my opinion).
At that point I already had a huge amount of the Small/Medium/Large ones in the market and I chose not to rename the large shank ones.
It's dumb, I agree... …..

Thanks, Tony, that helps a lot!

Btw, they are really comfortable.

Do you do custom rim/cup duplication? Would be interested in trying my current setup but in something like buffalo horn or bronze

I'd like to add that I ordered a mouthpiece. I ordered a small shank, medium opening (2480 60) in bronze, silver plated. The owner was great: responsive and very helpful. It arrived from Italy in less than a week! It's as good a mouthpiece for me as I've ever played. I could wish it had a tad more bite to it (if that makes any sense), but I really like it. I believe it adds a dimension of richness to the sound of my horn that I haven't found in other mouthpieces (and there were a lot of them...)

Shumanbean wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:30 pm I believe it adds a dimension of richness to the sound of my horn that I haven't found in other mouthpieces (and there were a lot of them...)

This is why I own 3 of these mouthpieces. One in silver, one in gold and one with a 65 throat for my medium bore.

My only gripe is that I wish the shanks weren't so skinny/fragile. My original shank doesn't look great, and all the techs in my area are scared to work on it because they're worried it'll crack. A few people in my area have had issues with shanks cracking. I think all have been trumpet players though.

Otherwise I love the mouthpieces. As mentioned above, I have 3, so the shank obviously isn't too big of an issue for me

TromboneSam wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:20 am Do you do custom rim/cup duplication? Would be interested in trying my current setup but in something like buffalo horn or bronze

Yes, I have a Renishaw scanning rig, I can either scan myself of ask a friend of mine in the US to do the scanning if you don't want to send the mouthpiece oversea (which is always risky and takes forever...).

Shumanbean wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:30 pm I'd like to add that I ordered a mouthpiece. I ordered a small shank, medium opening (2480 60) in bronze, silver plated. The owner was great: responsive and very helpful. It arrived from Italy in less than a week! It's as good a mouthpiece for me as I've ever played. I could wish it had a tad more bite to it (if that makes any sense), but I really like it. I believe it adds a dimension of richness to the sound of my horn that I haven't found in other mouthpieces (and there were a lot of them...)

Thanks!

JLivi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:56 pm

Shumanbean wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:30 pm I believe it adds a dimension of richness to the sound of my horn that I haven't found in other mouthpieces (and there were a lot of them...)

My only gripe is that I wish the shanks weren't so skinny/fragile. My original shank doesn't look great, and all the techs in my area are scared to work on it because they're worried it'll crack. A few people in my area have had issues with shanks cracking. I think all have been trumpet players though.

I agree, some models have a very thin wall at the end of the shank.
I wish I could make them thicker but that would negate the benefits of the internal design of the backbores.
Sorry...

ARResonance wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:32 am Regarding materials:

Stainless steel is a strange material: has a much darker sound and less clear articulation from the player's point of view but at a distance it feels exactly the same, very piercing and convincing, articulation becomes pretty crisp and projects a lot in front of the player, little on the sides.

That’s got to be the most accurate summary of stainless steel I ever read, thank you. With steel having those attributes, would you even recommend it to anyone who does not need it for allergic reasons ? It sounds like the other materials you offer have more benefits, especially Bronze.

for AR Resonance. The two [one small-shank w/buffalo horn cup (!), one large-shank all-brass] I've played (just recently, so not much time on them yet) are among the most comfortable. rich-sounding mouthpieces I've experienced. Is it the wonderful backbore?

AR has now moved to my top-3 mouthpiece makers (Doug Elliott, AR Resonance, Marcinkiewicz).

RustBeltBass wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:11 am

ARResonance wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:32 am Regarding materials:

Stainless steel is a strange material: has a much darker sound and less clear articulation from the player's point of view but at a distance it feels exactly the same, very piercing and convincing, articulation becomes pretty crisp and projects a lot in front of the player, little on the sides.

That’s got to be the most accurate summary of stainless steel I ever read, thank you. With steel having those attributes, would you even recommend it to anyone who does not need it for allergic reasons ? It sounds like the other materials you offer have more benefits, especially Bronze.

Mmmm, I'm not a fan myself, when I have to play it, but I like how it sounds to the audience.
I would say that it's a matter of how much you care about other people

I play a BVL80 with a GR1 shank. Recently, I switched from a Bach 50A3L to a King 7B Duo Gravis bass trombone. The mouthpiece sits farther into the receiver on the King than it does on the Bach. I noticed this is true of all mouthpieces I tried except a King mouthpiece. Is there a different shank you make to correct this situation?
Thank you in advance for your reply.