TromboneChat

TLDR: looking for a tenor piece that I'm more comfy playing

So,
I've been searching for a good large tenor piece for a while. I got a DW 4AL heritage about a year ago now, and i find it to be very close to the right size rim, but the rim shape has been a bit of an issue. Because of the flatter rim and sharp 'bite' or inner rim, I tended to get some pain after playing for a while. I recently revisited the piece after mostly playing bass for a while on my Schilke 60 then my DE piece, and I notice that the effect isn't as bad because I have almost fixed my problem of excess mouthpiece pressure. After a long practice session on it, I'm still noticing the same effect from the inner rim and I'm likely to do a little more tenor playing here pretty quick.

Here I'll go through a quick list of the pieces I've played on for tenor, how I liked them, and what I didn't like/had problems with.

• DW 0AL heavytop - had the sound I was looking for, possibly even a little too full, dark, and dare I say heavy for my tenor concept now. Can't tell if I loved the rim shape or it was just because of the wider diameter.
• DW 4AL heritage - good depth, good size, bad shape. gave me the sound I wanted for the most part, albeit a little airy (Which I've noticed while playing DW pieces almost exclusively). Tended to be a little tight down in the trigger register, but that might've just been the horn. Rim shape hurt as mentioned above.
• 51D Gold Rim - Great piece, but a little small for me. I'll be very familiar with this this summer, so opinions might change. Good depth, not wide enough a rim. Fairly good rim shape, probably a 8/10 now that I've worked through the pressing for the most part.
• 5G - good, but a little shallow. The piece that came w/ my large tenor, so I used it for a hot second before moving to the 4AL, then the 0AL.
• 6.5AL (small shank) - haven't done any serious playing on this, as I dont have a nice small shank horn and I don't play anything but my bass normally. too small a rim, a little too shallow for what I was using it for. I played a YEP - 321S and a JSL 536 on this, but didn't have any problem as I wasn't doing any higher level playing.

What I've looked into so far - I have of course considered DE for this, and I've chatted with him about it a little, but I kinda don't want to spend the 250$ for something I'll play once a week or less. I've looked into Greg Black, and I'm still a little confused there. I've also considered looking for a bach corps. 4G or 3G, but I haven't gotten around to it. Also, pickett and some other brands - haven't looked much, but I know they're out there.

Can someone help me find the tenor piece I'm looking for?
~ 25.9 - 26 mm rim, especially on the rounder side, moderately deep to deep cup, gold rim preferred.

I'm playing on a YSL-882GO, and I'm looking for a good orchestral sound, dark and full, but not as much so as I typically get on my bass. I play a 613G with a DE LB 112GP, K, K8 most of the time.

The DW 0AL is a bass trombone mouthpiece. I assume that's what you used on your bass at one time.

If you like the 4AL, there are other mouthpieces of that size to look at:

Schilke 52
Yamaha 57
Conn CL 4
Bach 4G

These all have different shaped rims and sell for a lot less than a DE setup.

Maybe you can find a DE LB 102G/G8 used for a more reasonable price.

Try a Schilke 52e2. Deep rounded rim in the size you want

If you like the general playing of the DW 4AL, you could like our MST Studio 4 AL N even more. It is quite close in the inner dimensions, but the rim shape is much more comfortable for many players and we have a different outer design and weight distribution, which at least to some players makes it a bit more stable and present in the way it responds and sounds.

However generally I hesitate recommending it for trombone - in my opinion it is however a great (!) euphonium mouthpiece.

I probably have some used parts in the size range you're talking about, that I would sell for half price.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:19 pm The DW 0AL is a bass trombone mouthpiece. I assume that's what you used on your bass at one time.

Actually, I used it on my tenor more than bass. I got it about 3 months before my bass, and I had just started playing in a collegiate-level community band on third bone part. I liked the sounds it could make at the time until not long after I did get my bass when I came to the realization that I'd been wrong about my sound concept. I like a little more compact sound on tenor now, as if sitting on top of the section instead of being the foundation. Hardly even touched the 0AL once I had my 60 though - I don't know what it was, but it didn't mesh as well with my bass and the slotting was different than what I was used to. The horn played very nicely with the 60, and it plays even better on my DE piece now.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:39 pm I probably have some used parts in the size range you're talking about, that I would sell for half price.

PMed

In case the used parts from DE don’t work out, there are two pieces I tried when I went through a phase of looking for a larger-than-5G tenor phase with broadly similar requirements to yours:

Faxx 4G: Astonishing value, based on a classic 4G design and well made.

Marcinkiewicz 3: Sort of in between a bass and tenor piece, was described to my by Graham from Marc. as being essentially their old GR rim with a more tenor shaped cup.

I ended up on something a slightly smaller than those two on paper but that feels a bit bigger than a Bach 5G to me, (the MST 5GD N).

Why not try a 4AL non-Heritage? The Heritage series have a very different (and IMO worse) rim shape from regular Wicks.

spencercarran wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:14 am Why not try a 4AL non-Heritage? The Heritage series have a very different (and IMO worse) rim shape from regular Wicks.

Even the classic Wick rim shape is fairly flat with a defined inner bite. As has been said many times, it's a love it or hate it shape. This might not be the direction the OP is looking to go.

The OP could try, along with what's been suggested here, a Schilke 52D or Symphony D5.2, possibly a D5.3. Though (most) Schilke standard rims have a decent bite, the contour is more rounded than Wick pieces. The Symphony series pieces are more expensive than standard.

But it would be best, I think, to find someone with a Bach 4G to start, which definitely has a more rounded rim than any Wick. It's also in between the 5G and the 4AL (really a euphonium mouthpiece) in depth.

modelerdc wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:44 pm Try a Schilke 52e2. Deep rounded rim in the size you want

I think the 52E2 is going to be too deep; it's designed for euphonium and deeper than the 4AL, per Doug's comparison charts. The OP has also changed their sound concept since their 0AL days.

Griego Classic series - NY 4…..possibly Nouveau blank if you want lighter. I always come back to the NY 4 regardless of anything else I try.

Griego Artist series - 55……Maybe ? I don’t have any experience on it, so I can’t speak to it. Is in your size range and has some good reviews.

Ultimate Brass - 4, 4.1, or SMP. Probably others that I’m leaving out. Shameless plug…..I’ll sell a 4 if you’re interested.

Hammond - 11 series….

Hope some of this helps.

J

If the 5G rim width is good but the cup is shallow, a good old Schilke 51 might be right. It will probably feel (and be) a tiny big wider than the 5G and a bit (more than a tiny bit) deeper. It won't be as deep as the 51D, but the inner rim diameter will also be significantly larger. There is a reason this is an old standard.

As suggested above, maybe a 52E2 if you want a really deep cup (4AL deep). I don't like a 52 for anything. The smaller throat and backbore combo just don't work for me. I have a 52E2 that sounds good on euph. For me, it isn't a trombone mouthpiece.

With any old/used Schilke, try a few. Every 51 you try will be a bit different.

I agree with J's suggestion of Hammond. The Schilke 51 cup shape can sound a bit "tubby" (my words, or I think Sabutin described it has "hooty"). A Hammond 12ML fixes that and is all around more even sounding. Some like 12Ls--I haven't tried one. If you want something bigger, 10 or 11 series.

I like the Griego recommendation too. I played a 4.5 for a long time. I like my 12ML more. And if a 4G rim shape works (too round for me), you can't beat a Faxx for value.

Paul