TromboneChat

As there is another active thread about the differences between Remington and morse taper, I started to wonder what you guys play with your 88H instruments? Preferably those with the original Remington pipe still in, but of course also fine with modern horns or replaced leadpipes.

Currently playing a Schilke 51 on my horn but it wobbles around, tested a Remington piece lately which doesn't wobble but is just not for me. So might contact Doug again soon to get something that fits this horn as well.

I soon decided that the Remington mouthpiece provided with my 1972 Conn 88H was not for me.
I have long played an older "long-shank" (dual-taper?) Schilke 51, which does not wobble.
I also have a Remington taper Schilke 51C4. Both are a good fit for me.

I also have great success with long shank Schilkes (51 and 51C4 as well) in my 8H(s). DE ... Not so much. There are long shanks around not advertised as such. Pay attention to pics or ask about overall length. (3.75" v 3.5", if memory serve). Try lots--All Schilkes are different! But all long shanks play differently than a large shank 51 in a Remington pipe.

There are also Remington shank Bach and Conn 5gs and variants out there. Old Bachs tend to be marked 88h on the shank. Conn 5gs are marked "5GR" sometimes. (I'm the high bidder on a 5GR now, so feel free to beat me out! Otherwise, I bet I'll have it for sale again soon. Most conventional 5Gs are a bit small for me.)

Paul

I just keep coming back to the Remington. It's the MP I played all through school. I've tried a 6.5ALR. I've tried 5G and 5GS (using a different lead pipe). In the end, I haven't found anything that works better for me than the original...

I use Doug's G8 Conn Taper shank with a LT G8 cup. Works great for me.

I play DE XT F8 or G8 on my 1968 88h and 59 8h. I don't have an original Remington taper in either, but Doug has stuff for that if you need it. I personally can't think of a reason to keep a Remington pipe.

Also, I most often use a sl2525 slide (525 bore) with my 88h and 8h. I usually use the F4 with that slide.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:03 am I personally can't think of a reason to keep a Remington pipe.

I can think of a few reasons to keep the original leadpipe in my 1972 Conn 88H:
• It works great as it is (with the right mouthpiece). If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
• Why would I do surgery on this wonderful trombone by extracting the factory-soldered leadpipe from the perfect, as-new inner slide, with an unpredictable outcome? So many things could go wrong!
• Once I entered the leadpipe merry-go-round, where would I stop? How much time and money would I spend trying to improve what's already great?

The Doug Elliott solution is a good one, including the ability to change rims after the fact is desired.

Greg Black, Griego and a bunch of other high end mouthpiece makers will make something with a Conn shank for you as well.

I'm also a fan of keeping the Conn leadpipe if you like the horn as is. Swap it out if you don't.

Jim Scott

Posaunus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:07 am

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:03 am I personally can't think of a reason to keep a Remington pipe.

I can think of a few reasons to keep the original leadpipe in my 1972 Conn 88H:
• It works great as it is (with the right mouthpiece). If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
• Why would I do surgery on this wonderful trombone by extracting the factory-soldered leadpipe from the perfect, as-new inner slide, with an unpredictable outcome? So many things could go wrong!
• Once I entered the leadpipe merry-go-round, where would I stop? How much time and money would I spend trying to improve what's already great?

Original Remington pipes are how old? Keeping that original limits the mouthpieces you can use, and you've always got that hanging over your head knowing that you've got an ancient leadpipe in there that's not doing you any favors. I've had a lot of leadpipes removed and the worst that has happened has been the leadpipe fell apart (because it had deteriorated already). I think there's a lot of hand-wringing and scaremongering when it comes to certain things.

You can get one of the stock Conn leadpipes with a modern mouthpiece receiver taper for less than $50, I think. I had my Elkhart horn converted to screw in pipes and used one of the stock Conn pipes. They're actually reasonably good pipes. You don't have to put Brass Ark stuff in to work.

I used a Remington mouthpiece for years simply because I didn't know there was any option. It cut into my lip pretty badly. I was so relieved when I moved away from that. I was just emotionally scarred by Remington equipment.

Matt,

I'm not in the least bit tempted to surgically alter my 1972 Conn 88H. I get just the sound I want with long-shank (Conn-compatible taper) Schilke mouthpiece or my Doug Elliott sets with either E8/Conn shank or G8/Conn shank.
I like the results that I get from these, and so do my colleagues (at least they say so).

I also successfully play a King 2B, a King 3B, a Conn 6H, a Conn 79H, a Conn 71H, ... with the original (ancient) soldered-in factory pipes.

I guess in your mind, I'm a dinosaur - but a happy one!

I started playing on a Conn Director with a Conn 3 mouthpiece in 1969 and later obtained a Conn 88H with a standard Remington mouthpiece for it and later a Conn 83H with a standard Remington Mouthpiece for it. I have never liked the conical bowl of the Conn Remingtons and find the cup shape mouthpieces superior for me. I later on switched to a Bach 1G type mouthpiece for the Bass horn and found it had much better response in all ranges for me then the Remington bass mouthpiece.

I might add that my freshman year in high school I played an Olds Ambassador with F attachment that had a Bach 7C mouthpiece, and found the cup shaped mouthpiece greatly superior to the Conn 3 mouthpiece also.

The 83H should have come with a Conn 3B mouthpiece, not a Remington. 3B is a bass mouthpiece comparable to something like a Bach 2G.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:15 am The 83H should have come with a Conn 3B mouthpiece, not a Remington. 3B is a bass mouthpiece comparable to something like a Bach 2G.

Yes, I believe that the primary thing "Remington" about the Conn Connstellation 3B bass trombone mouthpiece is the shank taper (to fit the receivers of Conn bass trombones such as my 71H). The Cup is rather V-shaped, but otherwise really doesn't seem to resemble Remington's designs. Bigger than a 2G, they were perhaps Conn's answer to the 1½G - my 3B measures ~27.10mm (1.07") Cup I.D., and a (larger than 1½G) 7.49mm (0.295") Throat. And it doesn't wobble in the 71H receiver!

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:15 am The 83H should have come with a Conn 3B mouthpiece, not a Remington. 3B is a bass mouthpiece comparable to something like a Bach 2G.

I do not have the 83H or the mouthpiece now, but as I recall it was stamped Remington only on the mouthpiece and not 3B.

Beaker wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:44 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:15 am The 83H should have come with a Conn 3B mouthpiece, not a Remington. 3B is a bass mouthpiece comparable to something like a Bach 2G.

I do not have the 83H or the mouthpiece now, but as I recall it was stamped Remington only on the mouthpiece and not 3B.

I had actually never heard of a Conn 83H. Not even mentioned on the Conn Loyalist Website. Apparently there were only a few made - supposedly independent bass trombones with rose brass bells. Is this your recollection, Beaker? (In other words, was your 83H a bass trombone?)

Is anyone else familiar with the various Conn mouthpieces labeled Connstellation or "Remington" ? I'm in over my head here regarding Conn lore!

83H is a post-Elkhart model. See here: https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnArt27-TRB.html Listed as being from 1979. No picture.

In 1972 Harry Maddox switched me to a Schilke 53. In 2014, I had a lesson with Doug and he said it was a good mouthpiece for me. I since developed a nickel reaction, so I switched to one of Doug’s G8s with the Remington shank.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:13 pm

Beaker wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:44 pm

I do not have the 83H or the mouthpiece now, but as I recall it was stamped Remington only on the mouthpiece and not 3B.

I had actually never heard of a Conn 83H. Not even mentioned on the Conn Loyalist Website. Apparently there were only a few made - supposedly independent bass trombones with rose brass bells. Is this your recollection, Beaker? (In other words, was your 83H a bass trombone?)

Is anyone else familiar with the various Conn mouthpieces labeled Connstellation or "Remington" ? I'm in over my head here regarding Conn lore!

Yes! The Conn 83H is a bass trombone with 10inch bell, 0.562inch bore and dual independent rotors in F and G, with a rose brass bell.

Beaker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:36 pm

Yes! The Conn 83H is a bass trombone with 10inch bell, 0.562inch bore and dual independent rotors in F and G, with a rose brass bell.

I'm pretty sure it's a 9.5 inch bell standard. Built on the 72H/73H mandrel.

Does anyone know what year Conn switched from "Remington" (Brown & Sharpe-like?) taper to standard (Morse-like?) taper for their large-bore tenor and bass trombones?
I presume that coincided with Conn ceasing to supply "Remington" mouthpieces with new trombones?
I'm guessing this may have been late 1970s or early 1980s?

Unless something is wrong with the original lead pipe it's just not a smart decision to change the original pipe, a major part of what makes an 88H SOUND like an 88H. Spend the time and money on a DE piece. I played on his piece without the Conn shank that he offers and then finally had him send me the proper shank. BAM! Why turn the instrument into an Edwards or a Shires?

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:58 am Unless something is wrong with the original lead pipe it's just not a smart decision to change the original pipe, a major part of what makes an 88H SOUND like an 88H. Spend the time and money on a DE piece. I played on his piece without the Conn shank that he offers and then finally had him send me the proper shank. BAM! Why turn the instrument into an Edwards or a Shires?

Right you are Bill! I only play my vintage 88H (1972) with vintage long-shank Schilke pieces (51 or 51C4) or a Doug Elliott setup with his Conn shank. Plays like a dream!

I have a 1964 Elkhart 88H. I use a Marcinkiewicz Byron Peebles mouthpiece in it. It fits fine and plays fine,

ssking2b wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:57 pm I have a 1964 Elkhart 88H. I use a Marcinkiewicz Byron Peebles mouthpiece in it. It fits fine and plays fine,

I have one of Byron Peebles' mouthpieces (obtained after he retired), also fit for the Conn 88H that he played.
I think Marcinkiewicz made these with a "Remington" taper.

I have an 88H from the 60's. It came with the standard remington mouthpiece and I used that one for a bit, but it seemed to have a negative effect on my sound. I actually bought my current mouthpiece from the classifieds on here--a gold Conn 5GR. It feels great and I sound more myself with it. I personally love the feel of gold plating on a mouthpiece.