So I've moved to a contra bone mouthpiece

[trombonedemon]

Seems that Long Island Brass is not wide enough and he's down for now. This sucker honks. 29.5 mm to 30.3 seems more comfortable. My range has improved momentarily
But we know how that goes with new pieces. I got to connect the bottom and the top of the range. Previous pieces are waaay to small.

[Burgerbob]

That's certainly a choice!

[trombonedemon]

That's certainly a choice!

I was wanting the heavyweight version, seems it's a bit easier at centering the pitch with more weight w/maybe a cost of endurance.

[BGuttman]

If you want to see what weight will do, get a bunch of fender washers in 2" OD and 1/2" ID. You can stack them up on the shank of the mouthpiece. I did this years ago to simulate something called a "Sound Sleeve" that was popular at the time. It seemed to help my lower register without doing something to or for the upper. After a while I forgot to put on the "sound sleeve" and discovered that all the good it had done was still there. I don't know if it was placebo effect or it trained me to do something, but I'm not one to argue with success.

[Elow]

I cant even play on a 1G

[BGuttman]

I cant even play on a 1G

Neither can I, but it's mostly due to the shape of the rim. At one time I was playing a Marcinkiewicz 105 on my King 7B, but eventually I determined it was too big and I went to my original Doug Elliott: LB114/L/L8 (since gone to LB112 and L7). The Elliott is about as big as the Bach 1G but fit much better.

[tbonesullivan]

I cant even play on a 1G

The 1 1/2G is a nice mouthpiece, with a rim that is a tad thin. The 1G on the other hand is borderline painful for me. That .5mm off each side of the mouthpiece makes it just too thin.

[Matt K]

Is it just me or does it seem to stick out pretty far in that pic? Could just be camera angle but that could have something to do with how it plays. Not saying it isn’t Good fit for you, I’ve known a few players who do well on CB pieces. If I were a full time bass trombone that’s probably where of end up. I used an LB116 when I was frequently subbing on bass almost exclusively for a couple months a few years ago but the switch didn’t do my tenor playing any favors.

[Burgerbob]

Yes, contra pieces have a bit larger shank that doesn't go in all the way for large shank.

[Matt K]

Well, that's one way to change the gap!

[WGWTR180]

Please post an audio clip. We'd all love to hear that. LOL

[RustBeltBass]

You must have a crazy lung capacity.

Playing contra mouthpieces worked well for Paul Pollard and Tom Klaber for a while, it is possible, just very extreme.

[Matt K]

You must have a crazy lung capacity.

Playing contra mouthpieces worked well for Paul Pollard and Tom Klaber for a while, it is possible, just very extreme.

Jeff Cortazzo with the Army Blues too. IIRC he plays something like a CB120.

[Doug Elliott]

Jeff Cortazzo moved a little smaller when he retired from the Blues. I think XB 116. But yes, for years he was on CB 120 or 122 on his bass bone.

[GGJazz]

Hello all.
Hello Trombonedemon .

This is just my opinion , but I think that a contra mpc does not work too well in a bass trbn .
A contra mpc is designed to work for a F tuned horn , as the contrabass trbn it is . A fourth below the Bb horn . So , his design is developed for this kind of instrument . The contrabass trbn bore is larger than a bass trbn bore ; for example , the Rath R90 contra' bore is 0,578 inches .

A contra mpc' bore is a bit larger also , as Burgerbob wrote above ; in some pieces , also the mpc' total length is longer , compared to a bass mpc .
I have a Marcinkiewicz 105 , that is 8,03 mm bore and 88,90 mm total length . The same brand bass piece I have , the EBT1 , have a 7,37 mm bore and a 81,28 mm total length .

Of course , everyone choose what prefer .

Regards
Giancarlo

[WGWTR180]

Hello all.
Hello Trombonedemon .

This is just my opinion , but I think that a contra mpc does not work too well in a bass trbn .
A contra mpc is designed to work for a F tuned horn , as the contrabass trbn it is . A fourth below the Bb horn . So , his design is developed for this kind of instrument . The contrabass trbn bore is larger than a bass trbn bore ; for example , the Rath R90 contra' bore is 0,578 inches .

A contra mpc' bore is a bit larger also , as Burgerbob wrote above ; in some pieces , also the mpc' total length is longer , compared to a bass mpc .
I have a Marcinkiewicz 105 , that is 8,03 mm bore and 88,90 mm total length . The same brand bass piece I have , the EBT1 , have a 7,37 mm bore and a 81,28 mm total length .

Of course , everyone choose what prefer .

Regards
Giancarlo

Agreed! But everyone has to learn.

[RustBeltBass]

Hello all.
Hello Trombonedemon .

This is just my opinion , but I think that a contra mpc does not work too well in a bass trbn .
A contra mpc is designed to work for a F tuned horn , as the contrabass trbn it is . A fourth below the Bb horn . So , his design is developed for this kind of instrument . The contrabass trbn bore is larger than a bass trbn bore ; for example , the Rath R90 contra' bore is 0,578 inches .

A contra mpc' bore is a bit larger also , as Burgerbob wrote above ; in some pieces , also the mpc' total length is longer , compared to a bass mpc .
I have a Marcinkiewicz 105 , that is 8,03 mm bore and 88,90 mm total length . The same brand bass piece I have , the EBT1 , have a 7,37 mm bore and a 81,28 mm total length .

Of course , everyone choose what prefer .

Regards
Giancarlo

Lots of good points. I will point out that both Mr. Klaber and Mr. Pollard played contra cups on bass shanks. I have seen very successful players in Germany on the Klier Contrabass pieces, though.

[harrisonreed]

Having the mouthpiece out that far will increase the perceived resistance up front, make the horn feel like it is projecting more (cylindrical instrument sound vs conical sound), and will probably make anything in the staff and above seem very unstable, but make the money range feel great.

[trombonedemon]

Got a chance to use it in a concert setting. I'm sticking with this. The extra air takes some getting used to but the extra room seems to settle my embouchure down so I don't have to shift quite as much. In spite of the measurements, the Contra does not feel that much different from the 0 G. Now this is not an advertisement, simply personal opinion. My Range hasn't suffered just endurance which will come practice. I bought Aharoni: New Method for the Modern Bass Trombone. This book is beastly and great for sight reading.

[LIBrassCo]

Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm

[trombonedemon]

Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm

Backbore specs?

[LIBrassCo]

Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm

Backbore specs?

I was just kidding with ya, this is too big even for a tuba.

[Posaunus]

Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm

Is this a mouthpiece or a washbasin?

[LIBrassCo]

Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm

Is this a mouthpiece or a washbasin?

Lol. I'm printing a handle for it to use as a teacup.

[MistedSwan]

Off topic, but where did you get those valve caps, they look awesome!

[WGWTR180]

Still waiting for that audio clip!

[trombonedemon]

Off topic, but where did you get those valve caps, they look awesome!

Scott Sweeney out Raleigh made them for me.

[trombonedemon]

Still waiting for that audio clip!

Indeed. Let ne make something I find recordable. Imma have to do it when the kids are sleep or my wind ensemble has rehearsal Tuesday, I need to start recording more any how, gotta Shure plus microphone for the phone. Gotta justify the purchase.

[YooperHorn]

I'm currently using a Marcinkiewicz CH105 on my bass bone. I constantly swap between the 105, the Griego .5 and the Doug Yeo trying to see which works best and at the end of weeks of playing all 3 the 105 was great in the low range, griego had the best attack. It's hard to decide which to use. I still don't think I've found my mouthpiece....any suggestions?

[harrisonreed]

Still waiting for that audio clip!

Indeed. Let ne make something I find recordable. Imma have to do it when the kids are sleep or my wind ensemble has rehearsal Tuesday, I need to start recording more any how, gotta Shure plus microphone for the phone. Gotta justify the purchase.

Still waiting on a recording of any kind to see how legit this CB mouthpiece is

[trombonedemon]

Indeed. Let ne make something I find recordable. Imma have to do it when the kids are sleep or my wind ensemble has rehearsal Tuesday, I need to start recording more any how, gotta Shure plus microphone for the phone. Gotta justify the purchase.

Still waiting on a recording of any kind to see how legit this CB mouthpiece is

I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place, now the cup and the rim is immaculate. I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat. Hmm, plays very well though. I'm being lazy about this recording though after every thing else. Good mp though. I just ordered another Long Island Brass company mp in silver, a copy of the one I already have.

[Doug Elliott]

I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place... I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat.... Hmm, plays very well though. ... Good mp though.

Doesn't sound much like a "good mouthpiece" to me.

[harrisonreed]

You're not really selling the concept.

In the meantime, I came up with a decent bass piece with my unique rim on it. Something like a .312 bore and a pretty long throat section. It plays great and is not a CB mouthpiece.

I'm sure real bass players would want a wider cup, but it works well for me!

Plastic resin actually works surprisingly well for mouthpieces!

[Fridge]

Just wondering, can you play a high C? Or blend with the tenor bones?

Fridge

[harrisonreed]

Just wondering, can you play a high C? Or blend with the tenor bones?

Fridge

Me or the OP? I can do both of those things with the resin piece.

[trombonedemon]

I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place... I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat.... Hmm, plays very well though. ... Good mp though.

Doesn't sound much like a "good mouthpiece" to me.

Right, the action is there, the intonation, not so much

[ZacharyThornton]

Still waiting on a recording of any kind to see how legit this CB mouthpiece is

I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place, now the cup and the rim is immaculate. I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat. Hmm, plays very well though. I'm being lazy about this recording though after every thing else. Good mp though. I just ordered another Long Island Brass company mp in silver, a copy of the one I already have.

This has to be a “bait” post right? You aren’t serious?

[trombonedemon]

Just wondering, can you play a high C? Or blend with the tenor bones?

Fridge

If you are referring to me, sure. I can scream on the thing, I'm having to do to much to get it in tune, Imma probably save for a proper contra. If I ever get one.

[Posaunus]

OK. Let me understand. [I hope I haven't missed something!]

You have purchased one or more "contra" mouthpieces (and have apparently ordered another one) but you don't have a contrabass trombone to try them on. You are disappointed that the contra mouthpiece plays flat on your plain old bass trombone. So, even though you have never played it on a contra, you are considering shortening the mouthpiece shank to make it play sharper? Did I get this right?

Let me suggest that you confer with your mouthpiece maker (Jeff) at Long Island Brass to bring you back to reality.

You also might take up Jeff on his offer to add a teacup handle to your piece. Just make sure you extend your pinky when drinking from it.

[LIBrassCo]

Since I came up, I haven't made trombonedemon any contra mouthpieces. He has a couple of my 950's in my standard series, with a custom blank and throat.

[MStarke]

This is funny to read...

Who cares about intonation if it has a fat contra something?

Just a little story:
I had a very prominent German bass trombonist who liked our general mouthpiece design and especially the rim.
But he wanted something way bigger than what we offered. I was to a degree hesitant to do it, but finally we made I think 2 prototypes. Honestly I couldn't play them properly on bass and they were for me in the contra size range.

He did like them, but finally ended up with something else (don't know what).
Certainly he is a far far better player than I am with a fairly unique set of capabilities and talents.
I also didn't want to put much more effort into it as this was such a special request that wouldn't fit for many.

I would generally recommend to stay kind of conservative with mouthpiece sizes, especially if you are not THE top professional who knows 100% what they are doing. (Not saying all pros know this...)

[hornbuilder]

So the guy uses a contra mouthpiece in his bass. Who cares?!? If it does what he needs a piece to do, then why is it up to him to justify to anyone else that he is using it?? I haven't seen anyone questioning Jeff Cortazzo!!

Yeah, I know in this instance ultimately the intonation issues make the piece less well suited, but that isn't due to the size of the piece, it is due to the shank being too large. I've known bass trombonists who have used tuba mouthpieces (with the shank machined to suit) with great success for what they were doing. I have used my Doug Elliott contra piece (with a standard bass shank) in my bass very successfully. It played great for the situation!! Highest note I had to play was a middle Bb. How often do bass trombonists have to play a high C anyway?? I don't think I have ever had to play a high C on a paid gig.

[BGuttman]

I had to play a high C on a paid gig once (I don't get many paid gigs, though). It was an arrangement of "All of Me".

But the range from Bb on the top of the staff (Bb3) to G above (G4) is really common in bass trombone parts.

I played a Marcinkiewicz 105 on my King 7B for a while, but abandoned it since other pieces in my collection worked better. The 105 found a nice home on a 125 year old Eb tuba, though.

[Fridge]

In response to hornbuilder. I’ve been playing an opera for the last 6 weeks that goes Pedal G to high A. There are MANY big band charts that go to high A or Bb. Bruce mentioned All of Me to high C. Hell, In the Mood goes to Ab.

Eddie Clark

[hornbuilder]

The comment was made specifically, "can you play a high C". I read the comment to be snarky. Yes. I've had to play high G, Ab, A, Bb, even B!! But I've never "had" to play a high C on the gig. I was replying with snark. I apologize if it wasn't meant that way, but there had been a number of previous comments that had definite "shade" being thrown. All because someone chose to use a contra mouthpiece on bass

[RustBeltBass]

So the guy uses a contra mouthpiece in his bass. Who cares?!? If it does what he needs a piece to do, then why is it up to him to justify to anyone else that he is using it?? I haven't seen anyone questioning Jeff Cortazzo!!

Yeah, I know in this instance ultimately the intonation issues make the piece less well suited, but that isn't due to the size of the piece, it is due to the shank being too large. I've known bass trombonists who have used tuba mouthpieces (with the shank machined to suit) with great success for what they were doing. I have used my Doug Elliott contra piece (with a standard bass shank) in my bass very successfully. It played great for the situation!! Highest note I had to play was a middle Bb. How often do bass trombonists have to play a high C anyway?? I don't think I have ever had to play a high C on a paid gig.

I, too, am a bit surprised about the rhetoric here. There is not a lot of players I know who did/do well using a contrabass mp, (Paul Pollard and if I am not mistaken CV, come to mind).

I just don’t get why the player is being hassled into needing to provide proof/evidence of his playing.

[MStarke]

The comment was made specifically, "can you play a high C". I read the comment to be snarky. Yes. I've had to play high G, Ab, A, Bb, even B!! But I've never "had" to play a high C on the gig. I was replying with snark. I apologize if it wasn't meant that way, but there had been a number of previous comments that had definite "shade" being thrown. All because someone chose to use a contra mouthpiece on bass

Matt, for me the irritation doesn't come only from using a contra mouthpiece, but from being aware that it negatively affects intonation in this case (potentially other things as well) and still sticking with it for unclear reasons.
This just sounds a bit cliche for me. I totally believe that there are people who can play very large pieces (I know some in person even), especially in settings that allow larger volumes than let's say a chamber orchestra, but too many people get tempted by it.

[harrisonreed]

That's just it, if he says it doesn't play in tune or have usable notes that it should have, how good must the sound be? I'm genuinely curious to hear it

[RustBeltBass]

I don’t intend to speak on behalf of the player in question nor can I judge him or her but I suspect (!) that what they think may be a great sound may really be merely a great FEEL.

That’s in my opinion the one danger with playing huge equipment. It feels like finally you can blow openly, allow the air through and things just seem to flow.

A potentially dangerous path to walk.

[BGuttman]

There are some who think the ability to play double pedals or make a bigger sound in the regular pedals is important for playing bass trombone. In my experience I played an awful lot more in the area above the bass clef than any pedals lower than G. Even Wagner in his contrabass trombone parts doesn't go lower than pedal G.

The range of a bass trombone generally should be from pedal F to A above the bass staff. Any more is gravy. Any less is a lost job.

Note that the 3rd trombone part in the Farandole in Bizet's "L'Arlesienne Suite 2" goes to A (A4, above middle C). Surprisingly, that lick is supposed to be played by the 1st trombone in the score, but the 1st trombone has a long series of D's (D3, in the bass staff) at that time.