TromboneChat

I'm looking to get a new mouthpiece for my (also newly acquired) King 2B. On my last horn I used a Yamaha 48 (YAC SL48), which was fine previously, but it doesn't transfer too well to the 2B. I do a lot of big band lead playing, and find that my high register isn't as clear as it has been when I use this mouthpiece with the 2B.

Taking all this into account, what mouthpiece(s) should I consider getting? I've been thinking about a Bach 7C, since I've seen this recommended in particular for the 2B. Plus, it has a shallower cup and a slightly smaller diameter than the 48 (24.75mm vs 25.25mm), which should aid my high register, I think? FWIW, I also found a 12C lying around and tried it out, but this was way too shallow for me (felt a bit like playing through trumpet mouthpiece).

Anyway, recommendations are much appreciated.

In my opinion, you should not limit yourself to Bach mouthpieces. But you probably want something in about the same size range as a Bach 7C or 11C. (Yes, the 12C is probably too small and shallow.) There are some excellent mouthpieces available in this size range that I think are improvements over the Bachs, from manufactures such as Marcinkiewicz (I like the ET3 and ET4), Schilke, Laskey, Hammond, Giddings (stainless steel), Josef Klier, Shires, Stork, Denis Wick, and others. (Some can get quite expensive!) And don't forget the extremely versatile system available from Doug Elliott - which may be where you should start!

7C is a good choice. 11C works too.

Thanks both for the advice.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:46 pm ...from manufactures such as Marcinkiewicz (I like the ET3 and ET4), Schilke, Laskey, Hammond, Giddings (stainless steel), Josef Klier, Shires, Stork, Denis Wick, and others.

Is there a particular brand you would recommend? Especially if it strikes a good balance between cost and quality...

I do not attempt to recommend anything with such a small amount of information.

Your profile also lists " Conn 88H with F attachment (new 2019), Conn 5G mouthpiece"

How is your playing on that combination? If you have acceptable range on that, you most likely don't "need" a small rim size to play lead on a small bore, and judging by your reaction to a 12C you shouldn't be going smaller at all. The 5G rim size may be a good size and you just need the cup and backbore right for the 2B.

Doug is the expert. But personally I use a Stork T2 with my 2B and think it pairs very well. It’s approximately the same as a 7C. Before this I tried a Bach 6.5 AL, 12c , 11c and 7c. Also tried a Denis Wick 12 and 9. The Stork just worked best for me.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:14 pm I do not attempt to recommend anything with such a small amount of information.

Your profile also lists " Conn 88H with F attachment (new 2019), Conn 5G mouthpiece"

How is your playing on that combination? If you have acceptable range on that, you most likely don't "need" a small rim size to play lead on a small bore, and judging by your reaction to a 12C you shouldn't be going smaller at all. The 5G rim size may be a good size and you just need the cup and backbore right for the 2B.

My range is good with the 88H + 5G, but with my Yamaha + 48 (which I was playing before I got the 2B) I had just as good a range as with the 88H, if not better, and the high register felt more easily accessible. My thinking was that since the 48 is shallower and smaller than the 5G, going still shallower and smaller shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know. I'll say that I'm not particularly knowledgeable when it comes to mouthpieces - this is the first time I've really given it more than a moment's thought.

Shallower will help higher frequencies to resonate better, which is why "the high register felt more easily accessible.". Smaller diameter helps a few players but for others it seriously restricts the embouchure, limiting high range, low range, and volume.

JumboT wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:57 pm I'll say that I'm not particularly knowledgeable when it comes to mouthpieces - this is the first time I've really given it more than a moment's thought.

Given what you've told us, I strongly recommend contacting renowned mouthpiece expert Doug Elliott (you already have his information). He can almost surely point you in the right direction and save you a lot of costly experimenting! For a modest investment, he will advise you to find a tasty cocktail consisting of (a) the right Shank/Backbore for your King 2B; (b) the right Cup for lead playing; and (c) the right Rim size for your anatomy and playing style. When you get the right setup, it's sort of magic!

I was playing a King 4B with a Bach 5g, similar to your 88H combo. When I started playing my small bores more, I tried the usual suspects (same ones Briande mentioned) without success. Doug recommended trying a Bach 5. Bingo! Good high range, less restrictive than smaller pieces. I now play one of his combos on my small bore.

DE XT 101 /B/B2

Kingfan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:13 pm I was playing a King 4B with a Bach 5g, similar to your 88H combo. When I started playing my small bores more, I tried the usual suspects (same ones Briande mentioned) without success. Doug recommended trying a Bach 5. Bingo! Good high range, less restrictive than smaller pieces. I now play one of his combos on my small bore.

This is interesting, I'll keep this in mind if the 7C doesn't work for me. Thanks all for the advice again.

Kingfan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:13 pm I was playing a King 4B with a Bach 5g, similar to your 88H combo. When I started playing my small bores more, I tried the usual suspects (same ones Briande mentioned) without success. Doug recommended trying a Bach 5. Bingo! Good high range, less restrictive than smaller pieces. I now play one of his combos on my small bore.

I actually use a 5G with my midsize 3B+. I should try it with my 2B!

In my experience, and for me, what mouthpiece I play has more to do with me, than with what instrument I play. Of course the horn has something to do in matching a mouthpiece, but not nearly as much as I, as an anatomic being, have.

I play, and have played for almost thirty years now, the equivalent of a Bach 6 1/2 AL (nowdays a Bob Reeves 6 1/2 AL "Clarke") on almost all tenor trombones - large or small shank, lead or section, solo or orchestra, pit or podium. I currently have just one horn - a rarely played King 3B - that I can't, and should not, use the 6 1/2 AL on.

On alto (and this far on all altos I have tried or borrowed), I play a regular 7C and on bass I recently found that a 1 1/4 G is better for me, than a 1 1/2 G.

Once I learned to look past the mouthpiece characteristics and measurements, and focused on how I felt and percieved my playing and breathing, my search for suitable equipment in that department got much, much easier and more satisfying.

I hope you can find what suits you, OP, and your playing best, and that it can be a lasting, satisfying solution.

Digidog wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:01 amI play, and have played for almost thirty years now, the equivalent of a Bach 6 1/2 AL (nowdays a Bob Reeves 6 1/2 AL "Clarke") on almost all tenor trombones - large or small shank, lead or section, solo or orchestra, pit or podium. I currently have just one horn - a rarely played King 3B - that I can't, and should not, use the 6 1/2 AL on.

I used to play a 6 1/2 AL on my 3B. Got into region, and all state bands on that combo, and also got accepted to a few college music programs (decided not to pursue).

However I will say that It was not the best match, and I was trying to get a sound out of the 3B that it really wasn't made for. Switching to a 6 3/4C really helped with getting a good sound, and definitely did help a bit when playing those Dorsey Tunes. I haven't played in a jazz group for years, and if/when I start playing the 3B again, I'm definitely going to have to re-evaluate the type of mouthpiece I will be using. I most likely will get a DE setup, designed to work well with my preferred rim size and to get the type of sound I want from the 3B. The 6 3/4C was good but low range suffered. On the other hand I was playing 1st parts and rarely parts that went that far down into the staff, so the high range, sound, and endurance were my key concerns.

JumboT wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:43 pm Thanks both for the advice.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:46 pm ...from manufactures such as Marcinkiewicz (I like the ET3 and ET4), Schilke, Laskey, Hammond, Giddings (stainless steel), Josef Klier, Shires, Stork, Denis Wick, and others.

Is there a particular brand you would recommend? Especially if it strikes a good balance between cost and quality...

You can try Faxx 7C or Yamaha 48A (although it's an alto mouthpiece). But it's better to contact Doug Elliott

Try the yamaha 47 and also the yamaha 46b. The Stork T2 is a beast. And if you have money John Stork will partially customize a stork New York 7c. Contact him if you have a nice budget.

I highly encourage you to consult with Doug. You’ll be glad you did.

With that being said, an inexpensive “Off The Shelf” solution that may work for you is the Yamaha 48A. It is a shallower piece designed for alto trombone based on their 48 rim which is about. 1.00”/25.4 mm. This piece has worked well for some players on 3B-sized instruments.

Good luck!
ER