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King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:33 am
by alberttrombone
Hello everyone!

Can you help me with this King 3B?
A friend is selling it and I can’t find its year with the serial number. In the slide appears 7519, what seems weird because its not that old… thanks!

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:19 am
by BGuttman
You are right; it's not old enough to have a 4 digit serial. There should be a 6 digit serial on the bell section near the screw threads. The 4 digit number was a part number used in manufacture.

The engraving on the bell does give some indication. That style of engraving dates back no further than the 1980s, Some time in the 1990s King hit 999999 and the next one was 100000.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:06 am
by tbonesullivan
Looks like the horn has the UMI "orange" lacquer on the bell section. The slide section looks like the grip area has been buffed or refinished possibly. Also, I'm a little confused, as the end bow of the outer slide looks to be nickel. I am pretty sure a King 3b should have a brass end bow.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:14 am
by alberttrombone
Yes, I found it: 307067.

Don’t know if you can see it in the photos, buy its goldbrass or yellow? I think its goldbrass but not for sure…

So this orange lacquer is good or bad? 😅

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:27 am
by Burgerbob
Looks yellow to me.

The gold lacquer is fine, one of the best 3Bs I've played (and slides!) was from this era.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:33 am
by alberttrombone
Serial number 307067 should be around 1950-55?

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:44 am
by afugate
The 2103 designation wasn't used in the 1950s.
--Andy in OKC

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:50 am
by alberttrombone
afugate wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:44 am The 2103 designation wasn't used in the 1950s.
--Andy in OKC
Good point jajajaja

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:58 am
by BGuttman
As I mentioned earlier, King "rolled over" serial numbers in the 1990s going from 999999 to 1000000. My guess is this one is late 2000s.

The 3B was introduced in 1955. I wouldn't expect this horn to be that old. And if it was, it would have a very different bell engraving.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:59 am
by alberttrombone
BGuttman wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:58 am As I mentioned earlier, King "rolled over" serial numbers in the 1990s going from 999999 to 1000000. My guess is this one is late 2000s.

The 3B was introduced in 1955. I wouldn't expect this horn to be that old. And if it was, it would have a very different bell engraving.
So with serial number 307067 from which year would it be?

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:29 am
by Kingfan
My guess is late 80s/early 90s.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:32 am
by DaveAshley
My guess is mid to late 80’s. The lacquer wasn’t as ‘orange’ looking after that, but everything else was the same. That’s not a darkening of lacquer - it’s tinted.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:54 am
by tbonesullivan
Burgerbob wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:27 am Looks yellow to me.

The gold lacquer is fine, one of the best 3Bs I've played (and slides!) was from this era.
The brazing seam on the bell looks lighter than the surrounding metal. Wouldn't that usually mean that the bell is rose or red brass? I am not at home so I can't check my 3B with a yellow bell to see if they used darker or lighter brazing material.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:04 pm
by MrHCinDE
Maybe take a photo of the tuning slide crook held next to the bell. That could give a clue since the tuning slide crook is almost certainly yellow brass. If the hue of the tuning slide crook and bell is similar, unless there is a difference in lacquer (e.g. repair and re-lacquer), the bell is very probably yellow brass.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:22 pm
by Briande
2103 designation puts it in the 80s but the serial number makes no sense. Something doesn’t add up.

https://www.horn-u-copia.net/serial/Kinglist.html

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:01 pm
by Kingfan
https://www.conn-selmer.com/en-us/resou ... al-numbers. According to their site, they re-started at 100,000 in 1986. That is why I guessed late 80s.

1983-1984 906,860 - 976,571
1985-1986 976,572 - 999,999, 100,000 - 159,464

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:41 pm
by greenbean
I agree with Kingfan ^. Late 80's? And it could be gold brass but it is hard to tell because of the tinted lacquer.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:00 pm
by alberttrombone
MrHCinDE wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:04 pm Maybe take a photo of the tuning slide crook held next to the bell. That could give a clue since the tuning slide crook is almost certainly yellow brass. If the hue of the tuning slide crook and bell is similar, unless there is a difference in lacquer (e.g. repair and re-lacquer), the bell is very probably yellow brass.
The tuning slide crook is the exact same colour as the bell.

I have a yellow brass Jiggs 2B and is totally different colour, maybe because the 2B is a modern one… I don’t know

The slide crook is plated, maybe because of a repair…?

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:02 pm
by alberttrombone
So… anyone can explain me about that tinted/orange lacquer?

Why they did that, what changes in relation to sound? Should I remove it?

Thanks everyone for your answers!

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:06 pm
by TomRiker
No idea about sonic impact, but I've read that King orange lacquer is particularly difficult to remove.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:20 pm
by Burgerbob
If you don't like it, you can remove it. I did on a couple of my Kings recently.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:11 pm
by Briande
Burgerbob wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:20 pm If you don't like it, you can remove it. I did on a couple of my Kings recently.
What did you use? Easy off? Been thinking about stripping one of my Kings and here they are tough to strip.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:18 pm
by Burgerbob
Briande wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:11 pm
Burgerbob wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:20 pm If you don't like it, you can remove it. I did on a couple of my Kings recently.
What did you use? Easy off? Been thinking about stripping one of my Kings and here they are tough to strip.
Ez off and polished

Image

Image

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:00 pm
by afugate
alberttrombone wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:59 am So with serial number 307067 from which year would it be?
Is it possible that the first number is actually an 8? If so, that would put it around 1980.
--Andy in OKC

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:21 pm
by tbonesullivan
Well, I checked my 2103 from the mid 90s, and even on that, the brazing material is lighter than the brass in the bell. I wonder what they are using that is even lighter in color than yellow brass.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 5:31 pm
by Lextier
It's all a bit cloudy when it comes to King 2103 serial numbers.
I have just obtained a MINT condition horn with the serial number 5 565714. Im not sure what the first digit means but it is separated by one space from the other 6 digits. The case suggests 80's.
Any help identifying this one would be greatly appreciated.
Lex. T.

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 6:27 pm
by greenbean
I think the 5-series horns were mid-1990s to early 2000s. They made some nice horn then!...

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 5:35 pm
by tbonesullivan
Found this PDF that was VERY helpful!

https://www.brasshistory.net/White%20Brass%20List.pdf

Re: King 3B year?

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2024 6:17 pm
by iranzi
tbonesullivan wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 5:35 pm Found this PDF that was VERY helpful!

https://www.brasshistory.net/White%20Brass%20List.pdf
Yes, you beat me to it. This horn is from 2014.