Slide noisy and sticky at stockings

[cagdas]

Hello, it is my first message in the forum. I started to play trombone at my 40 and been enjoying it for 3 years. My spouse surprised me with a Yamaha YSL356 1 week ago. From day one I noticed that slide is sticky between 6th and 7th positions. The rest of the slide works OK. Feels like the weight of the slide cannot be held by the stockings. Besides the tackle and noise, I've seen random scratches at both stockings, which is quite disturbing for a brand new trombone. Unfortunately my dealer says there is no problem with the instrument at all! Trombone might be the rarest instrument in my area, so it is nearly impossible to find someone experienced to repair it. If anyone has an idea what might cause the problem please share so that I can take it back with some solid arguments -to repair or return. Greetings!

[BGuttman]

Welcome! The Yamaha 356 is a great trombone, but it may need a little help.

The slide needs to be properly lubricated and may need cleaning. Also, look for little dents in the outer slide near the brace.

Start with cleaning: You need to swab out the inside of the outer slide with a rod coated in cheesecloth. There is a great video of Christan Griego showing how to clean a slide, but I don't have the URL here -- maybe somebody else can point it out. You may find a bunch of black crap comes out of the outer slide. It's often leftover polishing compounds or corrosion.

The slide needs to be properly lubricated. The most popular treatment seems to be Yamaha Slide Lube (not the cream). You put a thin line of the stuff on the stocking and work it into the tube of the outer slide. Repeat for the other stocking. Now you may need a dab on each stocking and things should work great. If the slide is gummy, give it a spray with deionized or distilled water.

There are great trombone techs all over the world. Where are you located?

[cagdas]

I am located in Turkey-Ankara. I certainly did cleaned the slide properly several times, gave it a bath and lubricated well with yamaha slide cream, trombotine and slideOmix at distinct occasions. Also carefully checked for dents, but didn't notice anything with naked eye. I was wondering if it can be a fabrication issue, cause I handled the instrument properly.

[walldaja]

Merhaba, welcome. If you applied all of those lubricants that may be the problem. Pick one lube like the Yamaha and try that. Make sure all previous lubes are removed from both inner slide tubes and the inside of the outers. Some horns are peculiar which lubes the like.

Best wishes!

[Bonearzt]

Welcome to the Trombone family cagdas!!
AS mentioned, the Yamaha is a fine horn!! Well constructed so I doubt you "mishandled" it in any way.
And having said that, ANY trombone will have some issues with the slide extended to the limit!!
It's just a matter of physics with the <1 meter of slide hanging at the end of the barely supported inner tubes.

A good lube will help. I, personally, prefer Trombotine or some other cream. I feel it simply works better and provides better protection between the inner & outer tubes.

Best of Luck!!

[Doug Elliott]

One little technique I use is hard to describe but I'll try:
When you get out to 6th position, press down with your thumb on the tube end above the brace, and lift with your ring finger beyond the brace, while supporting the cross brace with your first finger. In that position, supporting with 3 fingers you can take the slide off the end and still support it at the same angle. That way it doesn't bind from gravity.
I hope that's clear...

[StephenK]

One way of checking for tiny dents in the outer slide is to slide a paper tissue under your fingers up and down the slide, it's sometimes easier to feel them than than see them.
The slide should not stick at all, if it does it's faulty, given the other provisos about cleaning. I was had a brand new Conn that had a sticky patch, and the dealer was adamant it was ok, after returning it three times it was eventually exchanged. They aren't usually trombone players.

[Doug Elliott]

The outer slide tubes often have some distortion where the brace is soldered on, due to the heat from soldering. It gets a little tight when that area is directly over the stockings, which is 6th and 7th.

[soseggnchips]

One little technique I use is hard to describe but I'll try:
When you get out to 6th position, press down with your thumb on the tube end above the brace, and lift with your ring finger beyond the brace, while supporting the cross brace with your first finger. In that position, supporting with 3 fingers you can take the slide off the end and still support it at the same angle. That way it doesn't bind from gravity.
I hope that's clear...

So you're using finger pressure to counteract the 'droop' in the outer positions and keep the slide running straight? Never heard of this before but it makes total sense. I'll give it a try!

[BGuttman]

You will notice from Doug's avatar that the way he holds the slide it's easy to apply torque between the thumb and index finger since the index finger is higher on the brace than the thumb.

[cagdas]

Merhaba, welcome. If you applied all of those lubricants that may be the problem. Pick one lube like the Yamaha and try that. Make sure all previous lubes are removed from both inner slide tubes and the inside of the outers. Some horns are peculiar which lubes the like.

Best wishes!

I applied them seperately, after cleaning.

[cagdas]

Welcome to the Trombone family cagdas!!
AS mentioned, the Yamaha is a fine horn!! Well constructed so I doubt you "mishandled" it in any way.
And having said that, ANY trombone will have some issues with the slide extended to the limit!!
It's just a matter of physics with the <1 meter of slide hanging at the end of the barely supported inner tubes.

A good lube will help. I, personally, prefer Trombotine or some other cream. I feel it simply works better and provides better protection between the inner & outer tubes.

Best of Luck!!

So I guess the tube has dents, cause the movement is restricted beyond the expected gravity.

[cagdas]

One little technique I use is hard to describe but I'll try:
When you get out to 6th position, press down with your thumb on the tube end above the brace, and lift with your ring finger beyond the brace, while supporting the cross brace with your first finger. In that position, supporting with 3 fingers you can take the slide off the end and still support it at the same angle. That way it doesn't bind from gravity.
I hope that's clear...

Thanks for the advice. It should work for some horns. In my case, I guess there are dents at both sides near bracelts -which I can't detect-, slide does not move on a straight line between 6-7. So trying to adjust slide angel, feels more scratchy than usual. I might find a way, and shape the horn in the process. I hope the plating can bear it.

[cagdas]

One way of checking for tiny dents in the outer slide is to slide a paper tissue under your fingers up and down the slide, it's sometimes easier to feel them than than see them.
The slide should not stick at all, if it does it's faulty, given the other provisos about cleaning. I was had a brand new Conn that had a sticky patch, and the dealer was adamant it was ok, after returning it three times it was eventually exchanged. They aren't usually trombone players.

Paper tissue certainly feels better, thanks for the advice.

[cagdas]

You will notice from Doug's avatar that the way he holds the slide it's easy to apply torque between the thumb and index finger since the index finger is higher on the brace than the thumb.

I see, will work on that. Thanks!

[cagdas]

Good amount of Trombotine, movement is much better now!