TromboneChat

Do mouthpieces, leadpipes, and F attachments affect a horn’s intonation? I was struggling last night after putting in a straight gooseneck. I don’t remember it being as difficult and 5th and 6th partials were extremely sharp. Can various combinations of mouthpieces, feed pipes etc. make that much of a difference?

Yes.

Absolutely.

Changing between and f-attachment and a straight neckpipe is a pretty complicated from an acoustic standpoint.

I use a straight gooseneck every now and then with my edwards and my tuning slide is just over an inch different in each setup.

Samit2011 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:20 pm I use a straight gooseneck every now and then with my edwards and my tuning slide is just over an inch different in each setup.

That's crazy!!

Are they the same length? The distance between the end of the handslide receiver and the tuning slide ferrule?

JohnL wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:57 pm Absolutely.

Changing between and f-attachment and a straight neckpipe is a pretty complicated from an acoustic standpoint.

How so?

If the 2 assemblies are the same length, intonation shouldn't change.

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:07 pm

JohnL wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:57 pm Absolutely.

Changing between and f-attachment and a straight neckpipe is a pretty complicated from an acoustic standpoint.

How so?

If the 2 assemblies are the same length, intonation shouldn't change.

I don't know the answer, but I've always been curious about this. I've definitely noticed that pulling my F slide way out changes the way the open horn plays. Pulling it out entirely does too. I'm not sure it changes the intonation, but it does something to the feel/slot.

I could see pulling the F slide changing the balance of the horn, which may change mouthpiece pressure/alignment/angle, which may change the resulting sound/"feel" of the horn.

Taking it out completely does similar, but also lightens the horn...

wouldn't a rotor section necessarily be a bit longer than a straight gooseneck, with the deviation into the valve ports?

It also wouldn't have the same taper shape as a neckpipe.

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:06 pm

Samit2011 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:20 pm I use a straight gooseneck every now and then with my edwards and my tuning slide is just over an inch different in each setup.

That's crazy!!

Are they the same length? The distance between the end of the handslide receiver and the tuning slide ferrule?

Yep it's the same. I'm really not sure what's causing it, but at the same time I don't use it enough for it to bug me

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:50 pm wouldn't a rotor section necessarily be a bit longer than a straight gooseneck, with the deviation into the valve ports?

That was my thought, even if you have axial flow valves, there is a bit more length.

Even an axial valve, with the slight deflection of the main port, is less than 1/4" longer. Meaning the potential tuning slide pull would be @1/8".

It depends on the valve type and gooseneck design as to how much difference there is in the taper.

What about Shires large tenor tuning slides, the standard taper puts high D in 1st position, while the X taper makes the tuning more in line with Bach instruments. It seems unlikely to me that only the length of the tuning slide is what makes the difference there, or that the tuning slides are more than a negligible amount difference in length.

In that instance it is not length that makes the difference. It is the diameter of the crook at a specific nodal point.

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:44 pm I don't know the answer, but I've always been curious about this. I've definitely noticed that pulling my F slide way out changes the way the open horn plays. Pulling it out entirely does too. I'm not sure it changes the intonation, but it does something to the feel/slot.

I find this too. There's even a subtle difference if I pull the F slide about 2 inches, as I do when I need to play good low Cs on my single valve section. I've wondered if moving or adding a brace to the valve section would even it out.

GabrielRice wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:53 am

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:44 pm I don't know the answer, but I've always been curious about this. I've definitely noticed that pulling my F slide way out changes the way the open horn plays. Pulling it out entirely does too. I'm not sure it changes the intonation, but it does something to the feel/slot.

I find this too. There's even a subtle difference if I pull the F slide about 2 inches, as I do when I need to play good low Cs on my single valve section. I've wondered if moving or adding a brace to the valve section would even it out.

I’ve always thought a Gb valve (instead of F) would be worth exploring, but worried that it would have problems for this reason. Gb makes a lot of sense to me.

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:24 am [...
I’ve always thought a Gb valve (instead of F) would be worth exploring, but worried that it would have problems for this reason. Gb makes a lot of sense to me.

Actually, there was a group proposing the attachment be in G (there is actually a Holton trombone with this setup). There are some advantages to the G attachment -- even more than the Gb attachment.

I find that pitch rises as mouthpiece cup volume decreases.

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:44 pm I don't know the answer, but I've always been curious about this. I've definitely noticed that pulling my F slide way out changes the way the open horn plays. Pulling it out entirely does too. I'm not sure it changes the intonation, but it does something to the feel/slot.

I noticed the same thing with my single valve section when pulling for an in-tune low C. It also had a tendency to slip back in when I did that because the slide was generally a little loose. Lou at Virtuosity fixed the slipping problem and now the difference in response up around 5th partial and above is lessened significantly.