Medium bore trombones - why?

[MStarke]

I sometimes really like playing my Blessing medium bore (0.525) straight trombone. And there are certainly even better ones in that size.

But I still cannot figure out in which real life situation I would regularly prioritize it over other options in my stable.

Symphony orchestra: Large bore
Wind Orchestra and brass Band: probably large bore
Chamber music (brass ensemble/quintet, trombone Ensemble): Alternating between large and small bore
Big Band: Small bore
(Not playing any small Jazz ensemble stuff)
Etc...

I could imagine very specific situations or individual pieces where a medium bore would make Sense, but no general rule. E.g. Bolero, maybe a movie program or a downscaled section for a choir concert.
I also understand that it's a good compromise for situations where you don't really know what repertoire is coming (and you cannot bring multiple trombones) - but how often does this really happen?
And I see the point for people that want to play or afford only one trombone or don't feel "ready" for a large bore.

But if you are thinking in general terms - where does it fit? Is there any setting where you are expected to bring a medium bore?

(I am also aware that in the jazz scene at least some people play less Standard equipment and there may be more room for individual preferences. But also there the general choice is not a medium bore)

[Burgerbob]

As the former owner of a couple 36s, the current owner of a King 607F and future owner of another 36...

[mbarbier]

I've been playing a medium bore as my daily horn professionally for about 15 years, I find it fits my playing quite well. It's sort of a frankenhorn, but more or less a conn88 with medium bore slide (but Benge prototype bell that's a bit different material than they normally are) with a 6.5ALish mp.
I mostly play chamber music, solo stuff, and improvised stuff (more free/not jazz stuff) so I tend to have a lot of sound leeway, but Im also pretty active freelancer in LA so have to fit in professionally. I've always had quite an easy time playing quite loud so I find it's no problem to keep up in orchestra with it, but flexible enough that still works well for commerical and big band stuff. I find I have to be a bit more conscious of my sound concept/how I play in those situations, but orchestral stuff was my schooling so it makes sense. It also can allow stuff to be a lot lighter, which string players tend to not mind, especially since a lot of chamber orchestras I play with regularly are one to a part.

I like it a lot more than switching horns between gigs- just find it works much better for me to work with the horn to get the sound I want than to change unless it's to play bass or valves.

[Pezza]

For those who want to sound like a trombone & not a slide baritone!

The line between large bore & bass is getting blurred. I prefer medium bore, Bach 36, it gives the sound I want. I tend to try & play large bores like a bass, and thus don't get the result I want.

[jorymil]

Because I'm not a professional, and the players I want to sound like play/played similar-size horns. I really love the sound Jimmy Knepper got out of his 36, and currently, I like the sound that David Marriott, Jr., and Nick Finzer get out of their medium-bore horns. I probably wouldn't play a .525 horn on big-band lead or playing in a traditional Tiger Rag/St. James' Infirmary kind of setting, but it works for me.

I'd also say that the more you need to rely on public transit, the tougher it is to carry around multiple horns. Here in the US, there aren't too many cities where that's the case, but NYC, SF, and Chicago spring to mind. I used to live in Boston, and I definitely would have hybrid car/subway trips.

[harrisonreed]

As a 3BF player, I have no idea what the point of a medium bore is. If I wanted to be lazy or cheap, and play everything on one horn, that would be the horn I'd use. But I can have both a 3BF and a 396-A, and they fit together in one case .... So the medium bore is trying to get hired for a job that doesn't exist.

[MStarke]

I've been playing a medium bore as my daily horn professionally for about 15 years, I find it fits my playing quite well. It's sort of a frankenhorn, but more or less a conn88 with medium bore slide (but Benge prototype bell that's a bit different material than they normally are) with a 6.5ALish mp.
I mostly play chamber music, solo stuff, and improvised stuff (more free/not jazz stuff) so I tend to have a lot of sound leeway, but Im also pretty active freelancer in LA so have to fit in professionally. I've always had quite an easy time playing quite loud so I find it's no problem to keep up in orchestra with it, but flexible enough that still works well for commerical and big band stuff. I find I have to be a bit more conscious of my sound concept/how I play in those situations, but orchestral stuff was my schooling so it makes sense. It also can allow stuff to be a lot lighter, which string players tend to not mind, especially since a lot of chamber orchestras I play with regularly are one to a part.

I like it a lot more than switching horns between gigs- just find it works much better for me to work with the horn to get the sound I want than to change unless it's to play bass or valves.

I totally believe that this works for you and that you make this sound great. And it makes sense for me in this special combination. However this is more a rational of "For my overall playing profile a medium bore is the compromise that works best for me" than "a medium bore is the perfect horn for a certain setting"...

[Matt K]

I tend to have a strong preference for a medium bore on 3rd in a big band. Does a better job at bridging the gap to the bass, at least for me.

And if I’m the only trombone player, I almost always bring a medium bore. Gives me more timbral flexibility. That includes brass quintets and commercial stuff like a 10 piece “little” big band or smaller combo stuff. Small bores are great for cutting and blending with a trumpet section but I tend to want a slightly darker sound when I’m in smaller contexts. But I’m a super bright player so that is by no means meant as a universal statement

[CalgaryTbone]

There's not too big a market for .525 horns, but the situations I've heard them used in successfully are:

Big Band (particularly 3rd chair) - Steve Turre plays one all the time.

Broadway - Jack Gale played one - good choice for a show that has a mix of commercial/legit styles.

Brass Band - good choice for getting some brilliance in the sound at a single forte. Wind Ensemble could also benefit from this size.

Smaller orchestras or lighter repertoire. 1st part on Pops where there might be a combo of styles. Good for 2nd trombone with alto on 1st. Jay Friedman likes a Bach 36 for Bolero.

Some solo playing - French repertoire or Arthur Pryor style repertoire.

Much of this rep. can be done on other sized instruments as well, but some players find a .525 to be just the right fit for these uses.

Jim Scott

[BGuttman]

Jim pretty much nailed my feelings too.

I have a Bach 36C that has become my "jack of all trades" horn. It goes when I don't know what I'm playing. It will do the gig much of the time. For 1st or 2nd in Big Band I tend to use a smaller bore (Conn 40H, Martin Imperial). For Dixieland ensemble I tend to use the smaller bore (Martin Imperial). I love my 36 for 1st in Concert Band. I like it in Orchestra for French rep -- especially stuff like Debussy; or for "L'Histoire du Soldat". The 36C does great in Quintet. Especially when the tuba player is using something smaller than a foghorn. And for pit, the 36C is a dream. Especially for amateur productions where they are always telling you to play softer under the cast.

[CheeseTray]

I like them in certain specific environments:
1. Playing with very small, (usually freelance) orchestras supporting a choir (often a church choir or semi-professional chorale). The trombones are always too loud. You can get a little brilliance at a lower volume with less work.
2. Some orchestral pops situations; backing up pop singers or doing Broadway style stuff where you want to sound a little more commercial.
3. Small chamber groups, particularly if the music is tiring or has a consistently high tessitura; again, less work in avoiding being "too prominent."
4. Some recording work. It provides a brilliance that records better than a .547

[ArbanRubank]

Everyone needs a medium-bore horn. You simply can not have enough trombones AND when you think you do - you don't if you don't have a medium-bore. What are they good for? Absolutely nothing.

[Bach5G]

I like playing my .525. I can take it anywhere. Even bass once, because I had a trigger.

[hyperbolica]

I think smaller bore are historically more accurate for most existing written music. Big bores are mostly promoted by academics and certain orchestral players. I only know a couple people who play 547.

I like the lighter sound and feel, the wider range of available articulation, less muddy sound, better blend with the trumpets, more distinctive sound from the horns, and on and on.

[Kdanielsen]

I like them in certain specific environments:
1. Playing with very small, (usually freelance) orchestras supporting a choir (often a church choir or semi-professional chorale). The trombones are always too loud. You can get a little brilliance at a lower volume with less work.

Yes. Brilliance at a lower volume is key. Sometimes you need that ff sound at mf, and more importantly you need that mf sound at p. It's nice to be able to make a full trombone sound without obliterating some poor community choir.

[CalgaryTbone]

Yes, I forgot Brass Quintet. John Swallow played a .525 for much of his time in the NY Brass Quintet, and so did Ron Borrer (sp?) in the American Brass Quintet. Not many people do that these days, but a lot of quintet rep. would benefit from a lighter instrument in that chair.

Jim Scott

[hyperbolica]

Yes, I forgot Brass Quintet. John Swallow played a .525 for much of his time in the NY Brass Quintet, and so did Ron Borrer (sp?) in the American Brass Quintet. Not many people do that these days, but a lot of quintet rep. would benefit from a lighter instrument in that chair.

Jim Scott

Chamber music is by definition for a smaller space. Doesn't need a full blast instrument. Smaller horns are more nimble, lighter, easier to play.

[spencercarran]

On the one hand is the argument on versatility - with the right mouthpiece and sound concept, a medium bore can be made to work serviceably well in settings where the "default" choice might be either a large bore orchestral horn or a small jazz horn. If you don't have the money or storage space or frequent playing/practice opportunities to justify owning multiple tenors, it can be a reasonable jack-of-all-trades option.

The other side of my argument for a medium bore tenor is that in many settings it is actually the correct musical choice. Big orchestral tenors are meant for, well, big orchestras, and most of us don't play in those. Lots of orchestral repertoire is more appropriate with a lighter sound, so unless you've got a concert of all loud Romantic pieces the big tenor isn't necessarily the best choice there either. If you're in a wind band, which often involves doubled parts, the type of sound that top orchestral players produce would be completely inappropriate and overwhelm the rest of the ensemble. 3rd bone in big band, as Matt mentioned, is another spot where 0.525 with F is the ideal instrument. Chamber music and pit orchestra both are good places for an instrument with a bit more weight to the sound than a small bore, but lighter than an orchestral horn.

TBH, my question would be where is a 0.547 tenor ever really justified, outside of a big orchestra (and even there it's not always the best choice).

[baileyman]

Medium bore in big band only after 1965. Before then it's .500 max. And the bass, if any, would match the timbre not the other way around.

[asmith]

Yes, I forgot Brass Quintet. John Swallow played a .525 for much of his time in the NY Brass Quintet, and so did Ron Borrer (sp?) in the American Brass Quintet. Not many people do that these days, but a lot of quintet rep. would benefit from a lighter instrument in that chair.

Jim Scott

I really like a medium bore horn in a quintet if I am playing bass trombone instead of tuba.

Also, they can be a great transitional horn for students that are ready for an F-attachment but not a large bore. We have a few teachers around my area that really like the Eastman ETB428MG for that exact reason, plus it's pretty cheap.

[deanmccarty]

I love a medium bore instrument… I used to have a Bach 36 with gold brass bell and lightweight slide… it smoked on salsa gigs…

Then I got a Rath R3 and it was even better…

playing third in a big band is perfect… put shows, especially if you have an attachment. However, I have a bass, a large bore, and a small bore… I found that I was playing the R3 less and less so I sold it… but it was my favorite horn.

[tbonesullivan]

Wasn't Ralph Sauer using a .525 bore Conn 8H not long before his retirement in 2006? I think it had an 8 inch bell as well, at least the one that was for sale at the Brass Ark did. For a principal player, depending on the repertoire, a .525 bore horn can be perfect. Of course, that depends on what the musical director wants for the orchestra.

For chamber music, pit, etc, I think a .525 horn with an F attachment is just about perfect.

[hornbuilder]

The similar question could be asked.

Large bore horns. Why??

[DougHulme]

Dennis Wick always said for a brass band it should be .525 horns for 1st trombone .547 horns for 2nd trombone. I fully agree with him. Its rare these days to see anything other than large bore trombones in brass bands. That, I believe, is because we see kinship to Orchestral players because of the 'classical' style of playing they both have in common. Whereas I believe the sound and instrument 'weaponry' of a brass band is much closer to a big band/dance band where of copurse it is common place to find .525 horns... Doug

[Burgerbob]

The similar question could be asked.

Large bore horns. Why??

When played well, make some of the most beautiful trombones sounds that exist.

[hornbuilder]

So beautiful sounds can't be made on smaller bore instruments?

[Burgerbob]

So beautiful sounds can't be made on smaller bore instruments?

That would be putting a lot of words in my mouth!

[Bach5G]

If you asked for memorably beautiful trombone, the man in the street might respond with Tommy Dorsey or, maybe, Urbie Green or Bill Watrous. I might be hard pressed to come up with J Alessi or C Lindbergh if I were asked.

[imsevimse]

The similar question could be asked.

Large bore horns. Why??

Yes, that question is also relevant. In the settings I play I've found that a Bach 36BO is about as big it needs to be. I'm not playing the heavy stuff in a symphony orchestra. The symphony orchestras I play in, when that happens are often small community symphony orchestras and they do not play heavy symphonies by Mahler or operas by Wagner. I think it is easier work on first part to blend with my .525 horn. A Bach 36BO is also good for first part in Brass Band and Windorchestra. It is my preferred horn in those situations. It fits next to .547 horns.

/Tom

[hornbuilder]

So beautiful sounds can't be made on smaller bore instruments?

That would be putting a lot of words in my mouth!

[Burgerbob]

It's important to remember that trombone sizes are not exactly a zero-sum game. Just because someone uses a large bore somewhere (or anything else), doesn't mean you can't use something you want!

Here's my example of stellar, pinnacle trombone sound... and no, I didn't force Alain to play this on his .547, he chose it!

[spencercarran]

The similar question could be asked.

Large bore horns. Why??

When played well, make some of the most beautiful trombones sounds that exist.

Awfully big caveat there

I'd bet that a large majority of trombonists I've encountered on 0.547 tenors would sound appreciably better if they just switched to 0.525.

[GabrielRice]

The similar question could be asked.

Large bore horns. Why??

I for one would love to hear what would happen if my colleagues played medium bores in orchestra settings more often.

Also, 3/4 and 4/4 tubas.

#old #tired #idontalwaysloveplayingsoloudanymore

[LeTromboniste]

The similar question could be asked.

Large bore horns. Why??

I for one would love to hear what would happen if my colleagues played medium bores in orchestra settings more often.

Also, 3/4 and 4/4 tubas.

#old #tired #idontalwaysloveplayingsoloudanymore

100% agree. I think the orchestral trombone scene would benefit tremendously from more varied equipment. Medium and even certain small bore horns can sound fantastic on 1st trombone in a large chunk of our repertoire.

Same with smaller tubas. One of my biggest pet peeve is hearing people play massive tubas on parts originally for ophicleide or various serpent-family instruments. The sound from these instruments was completely different, and composers wrote for them in an accordingly completely different role, which often isn't the bass of the brass (particularly serpent parts are almost never acting as the bass or support of the brass). Playing those parts on big tubas massively denatures the sound of the brass section. Very small bass tubas and even euphonium do a much better job of getting the role of the part right.

[harrisonreed]

That's assuming that composers would have stuck with serpents, etc, even if modern tubas and trombones had been available to them. I doubt it. Why?

We don't play them anymore. We're the same people with the same ears. Do people gravitate towards instruments that sound worse? Probably not. I think players (and composers!) gravitate towards instruments where the audience goes "whooooa, that was the hugest brass sound I ever heard".

[Bach5G]

If modern instruments had been available, composers might have written differently. Maybe everything would include a massive brass climax. Or maybe not.

But they wrote what they wrote for the instruments they had at their disposal. That was likely the sound they had in mind.

[CalgaryTbone]

One other reason that .547's are in use more is that a lot of composers/arrangers are not very clear on the difference between tenor and bass trombone. I see a lot of parts nowadays with lots of trigger notes in the tenors and very low range overall, even in Pops repertoire. Bad scoring - thick muddy writing, but unfriendly to a smaller bore horn in every way. Worst of all worlds, since the low writing and large horns both add to the muddy texture. Add close mikes for everyone and it is the musical equivalent of a slow moving mudslide. Very few people study orchestration anymore - charts are produced by someone that took a semester of theory and owns Finale.

These charts are all technically playable, but aren't in sync with the sound that would be supportive of the music being played. Also, there are a lot of shows, ballets, etc. where someone has done a "reduction" so what was a section of 2 or 3 players is now just one. I played a run of "West Side Story" where there were prominent low "C's" and at least one high "E flat". No horn to use for that but a .547 tenor.

Jim Scott

[hyperbolica]

547 is at the extreme end of the tenor size range, and yet schools push a lot of students into that extremity. Advanced players can handle the bigger size and make it sound good, make it louder, as it sometimes needs to be. But I'm not as convinced that can be said for your average student.

BUT... most students aren't at the extreme end of the spectrum, and really shouldn't be playing that big size. I think a lot or maybe most students would be better on King 607/608, and I know there is a cheap Bach 525. You see a fair number of Conn 52h on ebay, so they are being bought and used.

The nicest M&W I've played was the 525 prototype. My favorite Rath is the R3. My orchestral horn is a '58 8h with a 525 slide (sometimes have to temper it with a larger mouthpiece). For quartet/quintet I'd swap out the 8h bell section with an 88h section.

I frankly think almost everything sounds a little nicer if you go down a bore size or two. The sound really does get dull on 547. The last trombone choir I played in I used my 48h for the high parts. Yes, I had to work to keep it reeled in, but don't we all?

I played 88h exclusively for ~30 years. 88h is on the more sparkly end of the 547 spectrum. I played 42b when I played with the Navy, because, as they said, "we need to make 15 sound like 60".

Once I started experimenting with smaller bores, it opened up a whole new world. Having lived in the classical world for so long, I was definitely a bore snob. We shouldn't keep imposing this prejudice on kids. There's nothing wrong with 547, I'll pick it up for 3rd parts, even light bass parts, or if I have to really put the hammer down with a big loud orchestra (which I haven't had to do for ~25 years). 525 (and yes, smaller) gives more definition to the sound, and is kinder to older players ;o)

[harrisonreed]

The student argument doesn't hold water, I think. If the aim is to produce hirable, say, orchestral musicians, then you need to train them on the equipment that people are being hired on. If a student can't hack the required equipment...

This goes for any technical school. You name it. You wanna be a 18 wheel truck driver, you gotta drive an 18 wheel truck

It's a completely different story if you're going to be the one who tries to change the business and the culture. Good luck!

[Burgerbob]

Be the change you want to see. I play plenty of smaller bore stuff myself... in the right settings!

The pros are using big horns in orchestral settings 95% of the time, period.

[whitbey]

Except for my bass bone everything I play is duo bore. I usually play 547/562 in orchestra and band. For me it is a 547 that does not fight back. But the air goes fast. So I got a 525/547 slide. Doug E gave me a larger shank for the 525/547 so it plays like a 547 horn. But the air goes easier.
I practice the 525/547 horn the most and use it in quintets. I have used it in orchestra when all I do is soft and high because it is easier. All the solos and Rochut play nicer with the 525/547.
Back in the 80's I was playing only a Bach bass. Ended up playing 1st parts mostly. I had a bigger and smaller lead pipe with 2 different MP. I thought one size smaller was not enough difference to buy a second horn. SO I bought a 525 Bach. It was too small for a most stuff. Later I flipped to a 547 horn and sold the 525. I gotta say the 525/547 horn does play like a 547. my 525/547 and 547/562 are all Edwards parts and mix and match easy.
So while I do duo bore, A little smaller is good, if you get the big there when you need it.

[Posaunus]

Why medium bore? Because large-bore is not the only answer to every situation. Right tool for the job and all that.

Like hyperbolica, I once (several decades ago) was a large-bore advocate. That was when I was mostly playing in large symphony orchestras in pretty large halls, or brass quintets. And large-bore is what folks were playing back then.

Now (unlike Burgerbob and his professional colleagues) my classical playing is mostly smaller orchestras, in smaller halls. I find that it's easier to balance with the rest of the section (and the smaller ensemble) with my Conn 79H (0.522" bore) than with my 88H, especially on the non-romantic, non-bombastic literature. I can certainly make it work with either, but I don't have to hold back as much with the 79H, which still produces a magnificent orchestral sound. I also just acquired an SL2547 slide for the 88H, which I may also try in the smaller orchestra setting. The 79H is also great for my current brass quintet, and for solos or small ensembles in churches. I'm happy to have a tool for every occasion. [Conn 88H for Tchaikovsky and Mahler; Conn 79H for Ravel and Bizet, perhaps even King 3BF for Mozart.]

[quiethorn]

The student argument doesn't hold water, I think. If the aim is to produce hirable, say, orchestral musicians, then you need to train them on the equipment that people are being hired on. If a student can't hack the required equipment...

This goes for any technical school. You name it. You wanna be a 18 wheel truck driver, you gotta drive an 18 wheel truck

It's a completely different story if you're going to be the one who tries to change the business and the culture. Good luck!

Equating elementary school kids' trombone sizes to 18-wheeler driving school. That's a new one...

[harrisonreed]

The student argument doesn't hold water, I think. If the aim is to produce hirable, say, orchestral musicians, then you need to train them on the equipment that people are being hired on. If a student can't hack the required equipment...

This goes for any technical school. You name it. You wanna be a 18 wheel truck driver, you gotta drive an 18 wheel truck

It's a completely different story if you're going to be the one who tries to change the business and the culture. Good luck!

Equating elementary school kids' trombone sizes to 18-wheeler driving school. That's a new one...

Oh, they were talking about little kids? I thought they were talking about pushing large bores on college kids, which is where that actually happens.

Give little kids whatever -- their arms aren't long enough and their teeth aren't done growing.

[michaelpilley]

My main horn is a Yamaha 456G (dual bore .500/.525)
I found it really useful for travelling lots, as you often don't know what you'll be playing and it can play lead in a big band, or lower bone parts in a theatre band. It doesn't hold up to large orchestras, but I don't really play many of them. Brass bands are fine if you're on 1st, 2nd probably needs a bigger sound, although that's only in the top flight. It's a pretty versatile instrument, so I'd recommend it if you're doing a wide range of gigs and don't want to keep switching horns.
BTW no problems getting the full range down to low C's and into the pedals. You don't need a .547 to play nice low notes, and the smaller bore requires less air.

[LeTromboniste]

That's assuming that composers would have stuck with serpents, etc, even if modern tubas and trombones had been available to them. I doubt it. Why?

We don't play them anymore. We're the same people with the same ears. Do people gravitate towards instruments that sound worse? Probably not. I think players (and composers!) gravitate towards instruments where the audience goes "whooooa, that was the hugest brass sound I ever heard".

That's beside the point. The point is that composers didn't write their serpent parts for tuba. If they had written for tuba, the parts would have been entirely different, because he would have written for an instrument with different possibilities, and given it a different role in the orchestra. In fact when they did write for tubas, their parts indeed were different! For example, Mendelssohn's serpent parts are the same as the contrabassoon part (literally the same sheet of paper), with the serpent playing 8 foot and contrabassoon 16 foot. They often play when the brass are silent, and conversely sometimes the brass play and they don't. The serpent also frequently goes above the bass trombone. Hell, in the ouverture to Midsummer Night's Dream there is a serpent/English bass horn (and a big solo for it, too), but no trombones at all. It's obvious from even a cursory glance at the scores that the bass of the brass section in that context is the bass trombone, not the serpent. You can see how a big 5/4 tuba on there hardly makes sense musically, and how maybe a euphonium might be a more logical choice. I'd wager in many of those pieces, the composer would rather have had the part not played at all (or completely rewritten) than played on a monster tuba.

Then there is the simple fact that there are pieces in the repertoire where BOTH the tuba and a serpent-family instrument are used. For example, Wagner's Rienzi has tuba and "serpent" (probably one of the various upright versions, not the swirvy church serpent). Berlioz's Faust has both tuba and ophicleide (and they even have a nice exposed duet). I won't even open the whole cimbasso can of worms, except to say that there again, completely different role. Clearly, they wanted to combine two different timbres, for effect or whatever reason.

I also find fault with the argument that early instruments sound "worse" and that modern trombones would have always been preferred had they been available. Certainly the technology for making wide-bore, wide-bell Bb/F trombones was available (the Germans made and used them since the 1830's), yet the French kept playing tiny bores and sub-7" bells until the mid-20th century. Surely it's not because they couldn't make them, but because that's the sound they preferred. That we today don't prefer it is irrelevant to what the composers wrote for and how they made their scoring decisions.

Am I advocating for using serpents and historical trombones in modern orchestras? Of course not. Nor do I care much whether people use alto instead of tenor or vice-versa. I just think it would be nice if we saw more variety (not that I think it's going to happen anytime soon). Not every piece of music requires the power of 2 large tenors and a bass, and sometimes it's a good idea to ask ourselves what our role in the music is and what instrument in our modern arsenal might best allow us to fill that role. Otherwise, "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

[BGuttman]

Maximilien, that was a well-reasoned reply. We need to add another factor in choice of instruments -- the conductor. The conductor is trying to find an interpretation of the music that sounds a particular way and if knowledgeable will ask for the instruments to provide it. He can ask for a larger or smaller trombone or tuba sound and it's our job to provide what is asked for. Sometimes that can require a different instrument. Sometimes we simply can't do what is asked for (after all, many conductors have no idea how we -- or any other players -- achieve the sound we produce).

[hyperbolica]

The student argument doesn't hold water, I think. If the aim is to produce hirable, say, orchestral musicians, then you need to train them on the equipment that people are being hired on. If a student can't hack the required equipment...

Yeah, there's a shortage of orchestral trombone players ;oP

[Reedman1]

Just wondering how much the mouthpiece can affect the timbre of a trombone - can you convincingly fake a large bore on a medium bore horn with a bigger/deeper mouthpiece, or conversely lighten up the tone with a smaller/shallower piece? If so, doesn't that extend the versatility of a medium bore?

[MStarke]

I am happy that this provoked quite some interesting views!

And I can totally follow some of the suggestions where to use a medium bore trombone, even if it's not the standard, but maybe the better choice in that situation.