TromboneChat

This isn't really anything I expect an answer to so much as just a complaint...

But why doesn't Yamaha sell their dual-bore .500/.525 F-attach horn in the US? I'm considering getting one of these as a way to get a cheap-but-good brand new medium-bore, but it seems impossible to buy from the US. Thomann's in Germany sells the YSL-356GE (nickel slide, I think) but apparently isn't allowed to ship them to the US. Japan and maybe Australia sell the YSL-456, has the same specs but a brass slide, but even if they'll ship to the US, still a pain to have to get them internationally these days. The only medium-bore Yamahas available in the US are the 8.5" bell ones, but I want an 8" bell. It's just silly.

I saw a 356 in Long and McQuade for about $1600 CDN (about $1250 US). Richmond BC Canada.

Don’t know if they’ll ship to the US.

No one here can do anything at Yamaha. Send it up to them, sand maybe they can help you out!

Do they not? I know they did at one point. I just passed one up on Craigslist.

I have wondered the same thing about Yamaha with the alternative leadpipes for the YSL-882 and YSL-882OR. There are two alternatives available from Yamaha: a gold brass and a sterling silver leadpipe. From what I have heard they are not readily available for sale in the US market. It sounds like they can be had, but it might take a while. Additionally they are considerably more expensive than leadpipes from other manufacturers. I'd be curious as to why they are not readily available.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:00 pm Do they not? I know they did at one point. I just passed one up on Craigslist.

I think did at some point, but not that I know of recently. At least I've never seen them listed on the Yamaha site in the years I've checked. Hopefully Matt K will chime in 'cause he seems to know a lot about them.

356G is available in Canada, and popular with schools. Some stores (or maybe online stores) might ship to the US.

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:37 pm 356G is available in Canada, and popular with schools. Some stores (or maybe online stores) might ship to the US.

Oh I hadn't thought of that. I'm near Seattle, so maybe I can find a store in Vancouver that sells them and drive up if they can't/won't ship.

.

Canada sounds like a good bet, especially since you live in Seattle - but if not you could get Thomann to ship to me in the UK and I'll forward it on to you. Seems a bitb daft to have to do that though. I have bought horns direct from Japan before now but always very expensive... Doug

Hah, as noted, I played one of these (and a franken variation) for several years and was getting parts & whatnot for that project. Yamaha is interesting. My understanding is that Yamaha determines what to offer based on essentially by committee, made up of of Yamaha sales managers in a given region. So if the US committee doesn't think there's a market, they won't sell something and likewise, if they think it would sell with other attributes or would otherwise be better because of availability of other parts etc, they might offer it with a variation on the specs.

The 356 is an interesting example because the EU version is different than the US version, which is itself different from the CA version. The European one has a nickel slide and a red bell, called the 356R. The US does not offer anymore to the best of my knowledge, but they did at one point and the default was a 356G, which had an all yellow slide and a gold bell. Interestingly, there seems to have been a US 356R which had an all yellow slide and a red bell and the lacquer they used on the nickel slides doesn't seem to be very distinguishable in pictures... so its hard to tell excatly what you're getting until it shows up unless the seller happens to know slide materials and, given these are all second hand here, and they were marketed towards students... means that they are likely not to know as well.

Since you were willing to buy new, depending on exactly what you want, you may be able to cobble something together from used parts and be within budget. I actually have a 356 slide that I'd be willing to sell, with leadpipe pulled. I've actually recently switched to Kings. I sold the bell sections to another forum member recently; they wanted the 646 bell I had, so they may be willing to sell you the 8" bell. I can mention that to them and have them contact you if you're interested (or if they're reading it obviously they can chime in, I just didn't want to out anyone ) Actually, now that I say all that, I think I have all the parts you'd need to build a 356, other than the bell, if you want to drop me a PM.

Another approach would be to order a YSL446 and replace the upper inner/outer with a YSl354 or similar pipe. Total investment is not much for that approach. And you'd end up with your 8" bell and 500/525 slide. Or buy my 356 slide and you'd have both a 500/525 and a 525/525 slide. Interestingly, the medium bore Yamaha slides actually fit on large bore Yamaha slides... but they're a touch loose. The reverse is not true though. So if you had something like a 548, you can use a 354 slide on it. And if you like it could just swap the tenon and bell out. Lots of options. I LOVE the mechanical Yamaha linkages & rotors. FWIW. But the rotors on the medium bores are "undersized" at .547 IIRC. Which works well for a medium bore. The 548 is a 562 rotor because its intended for a 547 horn.

Matt K wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:59 am Interestingly, there seems to have been a US 356R which had an all yellow slide and a red bell

I had, and recently sold, a US market 356R. I would guess it's from the mid-80's. These are really cool horns. One thing I learned in my short time experimenting with them is - the original leadpipe worked better than any of the other 6 I tried.
Its new owner may be the forum member you mentioned, if he's from Chicago.

quiethorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:01 pmcheap-but-good brand new medium-bore...I want an 8" bell.

Is there a reason it has to be brand new? Cheap-but-good used medium bore horns with 8" bells are plentiful.

The Yamaha are fairly unique. I'm not aware of any other one-piece, unsoldered bells in 8" w/ a 500/525 or 508/525 slide. Even custom, you'd typically be getting a one-piece soldered bell (such as with Bach or Shires). So the models are fairly limited so it makes sense that one would be looking for one "new" instead of going 2nd hand given there is a limited supply of these used.

It seems odd that a 356 model would be available in Europe and Canada and not the US.

spencercarran wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:26 am

quiethorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:01 pmcheap-but-good brand new medium-bore...I want an 8" bell.

Is there a reason it has to be brand new? Cheap-but-good used medium bore horns with 8" bells are plentiful.

Basically no used horn I've ever bought online has had a slide that lived up to the rating the seller was giving it. I've been burned on "8.5/10" slides that were more like 5/10 to me. So unless I can play it locally and verify the slide (harder to do now 'cause COVID), I'm trying not to buy anything used online unless it's in absolute mint condition, barely played and from the last 10-20 years. A young, mint 36B closet horn would be nice, but those are somewhat rare. So to keep things around my budget of $1500, buying a new "student" or "intermediate" horn is another option. Besides the Yamaha, I'm also looking at the JP Rath JP331.

Another reason is the wife doesn't want a beat up old horn with half the lacquer gone sitting out in the room where I play in our small apartment

Yam > JPRath.

Fortunately with Yamaha, you can still gets parts for horns even if you can't get the whole one so you might consider getting somethign and swapping out the outers. For that matter... with your budget you can get a butler slide made and still come out ahead!

quiethorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:18 am

spencercarran wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:26 am

Is there a reason it has to be brand new? Cheap-but-good used medium bore horns with 8" bells are plentiful.

Basically no used horn I've ever bought online has had a slide that lived up to the rating the seller was giving it. I've been burned on "8.5/10" slides that were more like 5/10 to me. So unless I can play it locally and verify the slide (harder to do now 'cause COVID), I'm trying not to buy anything used online unless it's in absolute mint condition, barely played and from the last 10-20 years. A young, mint 36B closet horn would be nice, but those are somewhat rare. So to keep things around my budget of $1500, buying a new "student" or "intermediate" horn is another option. Besides the Yamaha, I'm also looking at the JP Rath JP331.

Another reason is the wife doesn't want a beat up old horn with half the lacquer gone sitting out in the room where I play in our small apartment

Makes sense. I'm less picky on horn cosmetics and I've had decent luck with the mechanical state of used horns I've bought sight-unseen. If you have a brass tech you trust, you could always budget for a slide tune-up and it might still come out cheaper than new intermediate (solid 36B can be found for about a grand if you're patient and lucky).

If lacquer wear, dings, and other signs of use bother you, then yeah imported intermediate horns are probably the best options for buying new. Not sure if Wessex has anything worth considering in your desired specs.

For someone that picky about slides, I'm not sure I'd recommend any of the budget level horns, personally. The JP Rath & Wessex horns I've played are pretty good, but they aren't new Yamaha, Shires, Edwards, M&W, etc. good, imo.

Matt K wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:05 pm For someone that picky about slides, I'm not sure I'd recommend any of the budget level horns, personally. The JP Rath & Wessex horns I've played are pretty good, but they aren't new Yamaha, Shires, Edwards, M&W, etc. good, imo.

Yep, this is why I'm trying to get hold of a new Yamaha. Wessex has a .525 that I'd thought about, but I don't like the Williams style grips anyway.

Contact your local music stores and find out who your regional Yamaha rep is. Then contact that person. I’d bet they work with Yamaha Japan and help you out. They translated valve maintenance instructions from Japanese to English for me when I purchased a Japan-only model second hand, and forwarded them to the Yamaha Altier in case anyone else in the US needed them. They’re generally an excellent company to work with, but you’ve got to talk to them directly.

If you want a more direct solution, Shires and other US custom makers also offer dual .500/.525 slides with 8” bells. Considering the cost of importing a new 356R, that may actually be a more viable option.

I am in Brooklyn, NY. I have a gently used Yamaha 356G $1500. Contact me [email protected]

If Yamaha still sold their 356 here, that would be my #1 recommendation to my private students who are still renting their beginner horns. It would pretty much cover anything they had to play through highschool, and maybe beyond.

I've had very good luck buying Yamahas directly from Japan. I bought one that actually shipped to east coast US in a couple of days without any hassle or extra cost at all. I had been keeping an eye on 356/456, and they seem readily available from Japan at very reasonable costs. I got a nearly new 455 from Japan that was actually very nice. Almost made me rethink my position on Yamahas. But then I played it up against a 32h, and remembered.

I did actually get my 32h slide crook replaced with a crook from a 356. The 32h slide was frighteningly narrow, and the 356 crook is perfect. All it needs now is an F attachment. Modding out a 32h is an expensive way to get a 456 to play like a Conn.

Yamaha YSL-356G For Sale
https://reverb.com/item/85029426-yamaha ... ld-lacquer