TromboneChat

He can play high notes but besides that, he's a pretty mediocre trumpeter. His intonation is really sloppy, his tone is harsh and unrefined, and the stuff he plays really isn't that interesting. A lot of his orchestra members are much better musicians then he is. For example, Lynn Nicholsons solo in Mcarthur park is miles better then Maynards.

Maynard found a schtick and... stuck to it. He was an amazing musician, though.

Comparing musicianship is a little childish i feel. I always enjoy playing the arrangements his band played, so does the audience. His music is more fun than anything else, which i enjoy, and his success indicates other people do too.

Let us know how your gig goes when your band is featured on prime time TV, or how the buffet tastes after your band's gig at the Playboy Jazz Fest. Lol

JCBone wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:09 pm He can play high notes but besides that, he's a pretty mediocre trumpeter. His intonation is really sloppy, his tone is harsh and unrefined, and the stuff he plays really isn't that interesting. A lot of his orchestra members are much better musicians then he is. For example, Lynn Nicholsons solo in Mcarthur park is miles better then Maynards.

Yeah, but Maynard made it all possible. Stan Kenton might not have been the best keyboard player, but he fielded a band that was fantastic, and Maynard came out of that. Did you ever see Maynard live? Kind of the WWF of music, but some of those charts and recordings are really great.

If you're going to troll trumpet players, this is the wrong place to do it. And you might lead with Chuck Mangione, probably the king of overrated trumpet players. He couldn't play high, couldn't avoid splatting notes, but he looked good in a hat. As popular as he was in the 70/80s, he never really left behind much of a legacy, at least in comparison to Maynard. I lived in Rochester NY for a while, and Gap Mangione, Chuck's brother was (and maybe still is) one of the big names around town.

Anyway, all these big names got big for a reason. They were good performers. Music isn't always about precision. And the music business isn't all about music...

Bahaha. Maynard was AWESOME! Get outta here with yo craziness JCB

Thanks to this thread, my goal as a musician is now to become good enough someday that random people on the internet claim I'm overrated.

There is a difference between musicianship and showmanship. He balanced the two.
It doesn't matter how good of a player you are if you cannot get people to want to hear you.
I learned this when playing with the Welk organization. Musically not that satisfying, but good crowds and a paycheck every week.

There are certainly lessons to be learned from Welk’s orchestra, especially when George Cates is directing, especially when Bob Havens is playing a solo, and especially in regard to balance, and how long to play a note.

I heard Maynard Ferguson live at Bass Hall in Fort Worth. He sounded good and put on a good show. Was Maynard overrated? The high trumpet genre was born shortly before Louis Armstrong switched from cornet to trumpet. The genre may have reached its zenith with the likes of Maynard Ferguson and Doc Sevrinson. From what I heard of Maynard at Bass Hall on soprano sax, it is safe to say he could have played any jazz style he wanted to on trumpet.

What would be the result of doing digital analysis to determine intonation on Maynard Ferguson, Doc Sevrinson, or Bud Herseth? As Duke Ellington said, “If it sounds good, it is good.”

We have the “MacArthur Park” chart in our book. It is a crowd pleaser.

Most of what we have to criticize Maynard on is live takes in front of a live audience AND a TV crew, while he was possibly out of his gourd on coke, and it still sounds awesome. So you can't compare any of that to, say, an album released by someone else. If you stack his albums against other albums, it is right up there and it's pure entertainment.

Was he as good in the late 90s early 2000s? No probably not, but you're talking about a guy who had a full career and stayed on top the entire time since the 50's. Plus he pushed the envelope on different instruments.

I would like to be as overrated.

I have heard a lot of opinions on Maynard, but this is new one.

Hopefully you are not basing your entire impression of him on MacArthur Park. Please go to YouTube and listen to The Complete Recordings of Maynard Ferguson on Roulette. There are 10 volumes, here is the first. [media] [/media]

You also might watch Maynard be featured by Stan Kenton on the Ed Sullivan show in 1950. It is also on YouTube, start at around 4:55 seconds in, choose the better audio version. He was 22 years old at the time. [media] [/media]

Best,

SD

There was a doctoral thesis in 1970 at Berklee that did a study on what would happen if cocaine could play triples Cs on trumpet. It was later revealed that the subject of that study was Maynard Ferguson.

How is Maynard’s alleged drug use relevant?

This is one of my favorite clips ever. Great pictures of his trombone chops, too.

I think JC is a bit of a master of Cunningham's Law.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law

Bach5G wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:45 pm How is Maynard’s alleged drug use relevant?

It's relevant because it's funny, and this entire thread is a joke.

JCBone wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:09 pm He can play high notes but besides that, he's a pretty mediocre trumpeter. His intonation is really sloppy, his tone is harsh and unrefined, and the stuff he plays really isn't that interesting. A lot of his orchestra members are much better musicians then he is. For example, Lynn Nicholsons solo in Mcarthur park is miles better then Maynards.

Contact Lyn and ask if he agrees with you, or Steve Wiest or Wayne Bergeron, any others of the dozens of now household names who learned their trade under his guidance and tutorledge.

quiethorn wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:14 pm

Bach5G wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:45 pm How is Maynard’s alleged drug use relevant?

It's relevant because it's funny, and this entire thread is a joke.

Bahahahaa

Listen to Invention for Guitar and Trumpet re intonation.

Listen to his valve trombone in the 50s before the Superbone re musicianship.

The first response in this thread (from Burgerbob) said it all: "Maynard found a schtick and... stuck to it. He was an amazing musician, though."

Ferguson took the big band, which was the primary musical vehicle for mainstream popular music in the decades right before he was "coming up," and kept it exciting and relevant to a significantly-sized audience; after popular music tastes had moved on with the rise of rock and roll. He did it by arranging popular tunes that people were listening to on the radio, and delivering them with showmanship and flashy, over-the-top energy. He sprinkled in his own stuff along with those "hooks." Was it always clean and polished? No. Was it infectious and exciting? Absolutely.

His understanding of the importance of being contemporary and entertaining (as a key to paying the bills), combined with real musicianship, is what shaped the product. As a musician, he was certainly more sophisticated than his product - that was what gave him the perspective to do what he did. After all, he was still working, paying/supporting other musicians, and selling records long after most of his contemporaries were a memory.

If you have any doubts about Maynard's playing abilities, go back to his recordings from the 50's and 60's - absolutely great playing with great pitch and accuracy and nice lines being played in his solos. The Kenton recordings where he was the lead player are amazing. 50 years on the road took a toll on him, but he was still playing, and audiences were still paying for tickets and showing up. There's something to be said for longevity too.

Jim Scott

We, as brass players, look to Maynard's Kenton years because they so plainly show his extraordinary command of the instrument. The Kenton band was doing the same thing as Maynard's in its later years: high energy, showy stuff. (Maybe the most 'animalistic, high-octane ensemble playing ever, and definitely not always clean - but awesome!) The difference was that the Kenton band was intentionally a bit less commercial (-more 'artsy' and hence more of the darling of aficionados). But Kenton also had a somewhat smaller general audience as a result. Maynard embraced being an entertainer (in the best, mid-century sense of the term) as well as a serious player; perhaps to a greater extent than sophisticated listeners would have preferred.

This thread reminds me of the recent discussion on Roswell Rudd: https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... it=Roswell

We don’t have to like someone else’s art to appreciate it. And, even when we don’t like their art, we can at least appreciate the technical ability and effort that has gone into it. Look for the beauty.

I don’t like much Country-Western music, but I really appreciate the slick packaging, marketing, and monetary appeal it has to the overwhelming majority of people who have taken little or no time to understand music other than listening. I dislike rap, but I recognize its vital importance in the late 20th-early 21st centuries as an expression of injustice, amongst other things.

Chacun à son goût. De gustibus non disputandum est.

I like this thread on the TrumpetHerald board:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/vie ... 26&start=0

I was in high school in the 70s and 80s. At that time I didn't know about Maynard's path to fame. He and his band did a lot to spark the imagination of brass players like me coming up and hearing this incredible brass section, even getting played on the radio with Gotta Fly Now. Big band/stage band wasn't just the stodgy standards from the 40s, it was suddenly really exciting and fun. Learning about his legacy with Kenton brought a new level of appreciation for what he did for music and musicians. Yes, it is obnoxious for trumpet players to kick their bells up after high notes (generally adopted in the DCI/WWF style playing), and Maynards antics with throwing his arms out was way over the top, but as a showman, that's kind of what you do. Not everyone was as classy as Doc Severinson, or as ice cold as Rolf Smedvig or Maurice Andre or Bud Herseth. Does Maynard belong in that company? He was undoubtedly top of his field. It's easy to throw darts at some foibles, i'm sure made worse by the drugs and alcohol, but there is plenty there to admire. And I still love me some Birdland.

What a dopey comment. I play in a number of bands with one of the trumpet players in that Conquistador video. Was on the MF band for 5 years or so. He can tell you from personal experience how wrong you are.

A guy who made it as a headliner... playing "jazz" trumpet... in the disco 70s... surely must have sold his soul to some dark power, but he was talented none-the-less.

I went to a clinic he gave when playing a high school band festival in the late 70s during the after-glow of his peak fame.

He compared himself to Maurice André.
He said he didn't really practice anymore, his performing was his "practice".
He defended the "Maynard stance" as a breath support thing. I recall talk of abdominal muscles and the diaphragm.

I'm sure he inspired some trumpeters sold in that era, much like Chicago inspired some trombonists.

I wish we had some had Maynards and Chicagos around today.

I was privileged to hear Maynard live three times. The man was an elemental force of nature.

To use a sports analogy - a lot of people downgrade Nolan Ryan because his threw a lot a wild pitches, and his won-loss record isn't that impressive. Still, seven no-hitters (no one else has more than four) and 5,714 strikeouts (#2 on the list has 4,875).

"and thus, the trumpeter-bashing comment was JCB's last post ever on the trombone centric website, TromboneChat"

- Princess Irulan, The Depths of Muad'dib

(Come back JCB. All your other posts are great. Even this thread had been a great one)

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:31 pm "and thus, the trumpeter-bashing comment was JCB's last post ever on the trombone centric website, TromboneChat"

- Princess Irulan, The Depths of Muad'dib

(Come back JCB. All your other posts are great. Even this thread had been a great one)

He'll be back. He almost never comes back to the threads he starts anyway.

Along the lines of starting a thread and not commenting. There was a TTF member who was a very fine trombonist, but they would ask silly questions on the board. After reveiwing their posts, it was their modus operandae. I think they were doing it for amusement. Because they were a successful professional trombonist with a lot of education. I called them out on it and they left the TTF....

Benn

I thought Maynard had the hit recording of "Gonna Fly Now" but its omission from this list of hit instrumentals suggests it was never even a Top 10.

Huh.

Rewind The Biggest Instrumental Hits of the Past 50 Years

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:06 pm I thought Maynard had the hit recording of "Gonna Fly Now" but its omission from this list of hit instrumentals suggests it was never even a Top 10.

According to the Wikipedia page for Gonna Fly Now, Maynard's recording topped out at 28 on the Billboard Hot 100.

Listen to his stuff when he was young. He could play.

I recall him and his band showing up on Tom Snyder's late night "Tomorrow" program. The band all looked like a bunch of punk kids and they looked terrified as the camera panned across them.

Snyder noted how young they looked and I think Ferguson said something about "teaching a new generation".

There must be a lot of former Maynard players out there. I'm surprised we don't have some on this forum.

JohnL wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:31 pm

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:06 pm I thought Maynard had the hit recording of "Gonna Fly Now" but its omission from this list of hit instrumentals suggests it was never even a Top 10.

According to the Wikipedia page for Gonna Fly Now, Maynard's recording topped out at 28 on the Billboard Hot 100.

I am surprised. My false memory tells me it was much bigger than that.

I can remember him on talk shows where the interviewer would presume he had written "Gonna Fly Now" and Maynard would correct him by saying "Bill Conti wrote the song for the movie... I had the hit with it."

But really, Bill Conti's recording was bigger than Maynard's.