TromboneChat

Hi,
Can anyone recommend a specific size and cork for a Bach 50 slide spit valve. Also, while on the subject , what kind of glue would you suggest?

Thanks,

Randy

I buy the pre-made synthetic ones on Hickey's. They come with an adhesive pad and fit every trombone I've tried them on so far. Just saved a King 2B with one!

I also use the ones from Hickeys. They have gone on conn 88s, Bach 42s, 50s, 36s, shires, getzen, edwards, and king.

I use the specific white seals from Bach, I find that most of the aftermarket "corks" with the adhesive back are too soft and compress too easily.

Any other horn I use real cork.

I make my own from two layers of rubberized sheet cork glued together, and pressed to fit the cup. I already had the cork from recorking mutes.

For many horns, I end up cutting a thicker cork down.....customizing it to be centered on the water key nipple. Bach is one of the brands which needs that frequently. I use contact cement for all water key corks. Place a very thin coating on both contact points, wait about 10-15 minutes, press parts together....but get the alignment correct!

Water keys can have great variation. If a repair shop replaces the saddle/nipple or substitutes a part with a different brand, it can change many things in the height of the water key. When bent water keys are returned to their original shape, the height might also change and there is no guarantee that you can bend it back to its original dimensions. For these reasons, I try to treat every water key cork as a "custom fitting." In other words, I don't simply use "x" cork on "x" brand and "y" cork on "y" brands.

I agree with Eric about the corks packaged with the self-adhesive......they smash down far too quickly. However, there are some thicker, more rigid neoprene corks available that are fantastic......they do not pack down hardly at all. I have been able to use those on many models, particularly King water keys.

I use the synthetic cork from Allied Supply. They come in different sizes and thicknesses. I always shave the self stick adhesive off the back. If I need a thicker one I hot glue two together. Also use hot glue to install them. The trick with hot glue is to lightly heat the back of the water key, then put hot glue on the water key cork, then install. If needed you can heat the back of the key again and level the waterkey cork with a pad slick like floating in a clarinet pad.

bigbandbone wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:22 am I use the synthetic cork from Allied Supply. They come in different sizes and thicknesses. I always shave the self stick adhesive off the back. If I need a thicker one I hot glue two together. Also use hot glue to install them. The trick with hot glue is to lightly heat the back of the water key, then put hot glue on the water key cork, then install. If needed you can heat the back of the key again and level the waterkey cork with a pad slick like floating in a clarinet pad.

Many years back, I used a hot glue gun for water key corks. I thought it was the best way because of the "heating and floating" feature. However, because hot glue becomes very stiff when it dries, I had problems with the glue losing its bond and the water key corks were breaking off in one big chunk. Thus, I switched to contact cement because it is rubber based and remains flexible when it is dry. No more problems with the glue bond breaking away.

Have you had problems with the hot glue breaking its bond? If no, what brand of hot glue do you use?

I never had a problem. If you heat the key cup slightly the hot glue stays stuck to it. Also I dig out a few divots on the back of the waterkey corks so the hot glue has some nooks and crannies to hold on to. Harbor Freight hot glue sticks. Never had a failure.

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:10 pm

bigbandbone wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:22 am I use the synthetic cork from Allied Supply. They come in different sizes and thicknesses. I always shave the self stick adhesive off the back. If I need a thicker one I hot glue two together. Also use hot glue to install them. The trick with hot glue is to lightly heat the back of the water key, then put hot glue on the water key cork, then install. If needed you can heat the back of the key again and level the waterkey cork with a pad slick like floating in a clarinet pad.

Many years back, I used a hot glue gun for water key corks. I thought it was the best way because of the "heating and floating" feature. However, because hot glue becomes very stiff when it dries, I had problems with the glue losing its bond and the water key corks were breaking off in one big chunk. Thus, I switched to contact cement because it is rubber based and remains flexible when it is dry. No more problems with the glue bond breaking away.

Have you had problems with the hot glue breaking its bond? If no, what brand of hot glue do you use?

Real cork from Allied. With hot glue to hold it in.

Hmmm? Maybe I should try some of that Harbor Freight stuff. We just got a new Harbor Freight retail store in my area.

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:21 am Hmmm? Maybe I should try some of that Harbor Freight stuff. We just got a new Harbor Freight retail store in my area.

Some Harbor Freight products are surprisingly good values (quality/price). I know some professional contractors & mechanics who buy there. But some items are not so good. (Their bargain batteries seem to have a short life.)
In any case, definitely worth a shopping trip.

All of the above is great but if you’re in a pinch, I’ve had great success with a wine cork. Use the flat, non-wine end of the cork, and push the small end of a (round) small shank mouthpiece into the cork to cut a circle about 1/4” deep into it. Cut off with a sharp knife and trim to size. I didn’t even use glue for my 3b slide and it has lasted me 3 years that way with no leaks.

Hey TromboneSam! The King waterkey cork cups are rather deep, so an adhesive is not necessary. Some of the other brands have rather shallow or non-existent cork cups (the old Bundys come to mind because they had a very thin lip on the waterkey cup) absolutely need some type of adhesive.

Your post reminded me of the King that I played in high school and college. I never used adhesive on the water key cork. I flip-flopped the cork about once a month and the compression at the bottom of the cup would always return that side of the cork to its original shape. In essence, the cork would rejuvenate itself. I think I had the same cork on that trombone for 8 or 9 years.....and I was playing that horn at least 3 hours a day!

TromboneSam wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:13 pm All of the above is great but if you’re in a pinch, I’ve had great success with a wine cork. Use the flat, non-wine end of the cork, and push the small end of a (round) small shank mouthpiece into the cork to cut a circle about 1/4” deep into it. Cut off with a sharp knife and trim to size. I didn’t even use glue for my 3b slide and it has lasted me 3 years that way with no leaks.

Wait, people buy cork for this? I've always done the same with wine corks. Or champagne as they're often a bit more dense.

Wedge a bit of paper under the key, draw around it, then use that as a stencil to cut a lump off a wine cork. Push it into the key and you're done. No need for glue or anything.

You can even leave the top of the cork wider than the bit that goes in the key to rescue a mildly mis-aligned key/hole if you're feeling clever.

mgladdish wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:56 am
Wait, people buy cork for this? I've always done the same with wine corks. Or champagne as they're often a bit more dense.

Wedge a bit of paper under the key, draw around it, then use that as a stencil to cut a lump off a wine cork. Push it into the key and you're done. No need for glue or anything.

You can even leave the top of the cork wider than the bit that goes in the key to rescue a mildly mis-aligned key/hole if you're feeling clever.

You can get away with that only if you have a deep cup on the waterkey. Some cups are VERY shallow and the cork needs to be glued in or it falls out.

Most trombone waterkeys use 12 mm corks. My local tech (and Community Band leader) usually just gives me one when I need it. I think he charges a very nominal fee (around $10) to actually glue one in.

Most of the [cheap] champagne I buy comes with plastic stoppers instead of corks, so those aren't good for waterkeys. I have sliced wine corks about 3-5 millimeters thick and then trimmed down to a diameter of 12 mm. But the free corks from my favorite tech are more cost effective.