TromboneChat

I have a 891Z on trial. I am very much liking it so far for a variety of reasons. Comments from users please?

They're OK. I don't have one myself but I play with many people that do. I find that they get the job done, and not much more from a sound perspective. To play next to they are fine but not spectacular. I usually prefer Kings or other, more interesting sounds.

It sounds like you like it...

Seriously, if you like it, what else matters?
--Andy in OKC

I owned one for a while. I'm not a Yamaha fan in general, but I liked this model with the long NY pipe, although I preferred the Shires MD+ and the Courtois 402. If the 891z were the only horn I had ever played, I would have been happy with it. I'm back on Conns now, though, with a 48h. It just feels more versatile. Truthfully they are all great horns, and you can't go wrong with any of the pro horns in that size including the 16m, but I'm a vintage Conn guy, it appears.

I played a 3B for a long time, and had a buddy of mine order me an 891Z to try from music & arts a few years back.

Technically it held up and was able to do everything my 3B could, even with similar tendencies. Nice and lightweight. Good balance. Slotted well. But I liked the character of my 3B better, but I imagine with the right leadpipe I would have liked it more.

Like hyperbolica said, if I’d never played my 3B I would have 0 issues with the 891Z.

I've been playing an 891Z for 5 years now. Previously played 1983 16M. Looked for something else because of the unpredictable Bb in 3rd position. Tried a 1963 King 2B. Felt great one day. The next day it was like I never played it before. Tried the 891Z on trial basis. Everything is where I know it will be everyday. All partials line up with good slotting. Very quick response and crisp articulations. My wife who is not a musician could even tell the difference when I first practiced with it compared to the 16M. I use the shorter LA pipe with DE C cup for most things and a B cup for any lead work. I had planned on trying more new horns but liked the Z a lot so I stayed with it - no regrets

It's the horn I play. I use it for big band, often on 1st or 2nd. I have one with a valve too, the "Håkan Björkman" model. It was at one time labeled 892ZX when it was sold n the shop here. Unfortunately I can not find any official references from Yamaha that confirms its existence. I only know of six existing 892ZX and one of them belong to Håkan Björkman. Anyhow both the 891Z and 892ZX are great horns. I find them to play very different from a 3b although they share the same bore .508.

I use the Andy Martin (LA) pipe which is the shorter of the two. It is a very open horn with a clear sound. It holds together no matter how much I put into the horn. It never gets harsh. I like the 3b too but the 891Z is more sophisticated. A 3b might be a much better horn for Dixie or new Orleans blues (what I think) but if you listen to Wycliff Gordon you can hear the 891Z has no problems to be bluesy in his hands. Add to this Andy Martins use of it in The Gordon Goodwin Band and Håkan Björkmans use for classical solo work as well as for the principal parts of the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra and you understand this is a very versatile instrument. You can experiment with different leadpipes and mouthpieces and you have a horn that fits any occasion. It is often said about the King 3b it is a very versatile horn. I have always found that to be difficult, the preference for me is it is more of a jazz horn but this 891Z is truly much more versatile as proven by the artists above.

Go for it!

/Tom

Thanks everyone for your comments; most valuable plus those I’ve gotten from others. I think it’s a winner for many reasons. We’ll see where I’m parked with it in a couple more weeks. Chao.

Boneaphone wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:54 pm Tried a 1963 King 2B. Felt great one day. The next day it was like I never played it before. Tried the 891Z on trial basis. Everything is where I know it will be everyday. All partials line up with good slotting. Very quick response and crisp articulations.

I had the same experience with a 1961 3B. Interesting sound, but too many quirks to worry about remembering how to work around every time I played it. As a doubler, that effort was not worth the inconsistent results. If I was a full time small bore player, I may have kept it. The 891Z provides most of what that 3B did with none of the struggles required to produce them. It's easy to come off of weeks of exclusively playing bass, pick up the 891Z and sound good right away. I like how I sound on it and so do the people who hire me to play it. No regrets here either.

The one thing that is fairly unique about Yamaha are their one-piece, unsoldered bells. I think that's where the criticism of Yamahas largely stems from as being somewhat "dull". It's almost impossible to overblow them relative to other horns of a given size. On some of their horns it works quite well. I tend to like the Yamaha the smaller they get. On larger horns I'm just used to something different. That's also where the comparison, in my opinion, of the Kings as being more raucous comes from. They're the opposite: 2 piece bells with a soldered bead. Is that all the difference? No, but it's a pretty important difference in my experience. That combination of parts also makes the Yamaha extremely consistent, combined with their typically immaculate assembly.

One thing that's important to keep in mind is that the sound coming out in front of the horn is important, but so is the sound "behind" the bell. It's a balancing act. If it doesn't sound good to you, it's a bear to play. If it doesn't sound good to the audience, what's the point in playing? If you can get both with the Yamaha, that's great. If you can get both with a King, that's also great. But Aiden's comment about section is important; it's good to solicit feedback from people you play with about how they perceive you as interfacing with them.

Edit: The info about the Yamaha designs was a little stale at 2021 and certainly by now is no longer true. They had advertised lead free compliance on their website and didn’t specify soldered or unsoldered bell beads at the time for several of their models. Yamaha 800 series often do have soldered bell beads so thought I’d mention that here since my understanding of their specs has changed. Fwiw I’ve played some of their 800 series in 2023 and found them to be quite good players.

bassclef wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:29 pmThe 891Z provides most of what that 3B did with none of the struggles required to produce them.

I use my 891Z in the rock/soul band, and I purchased it when it was introduced to replace a classic, yet inconsistent, 3Bss. Same experience: no regrets!

Over the break I purchased a Butler carbon fiber outer for it. This is not a setup I'd choose for the concert hall, but close mic'd with a wireless for a loud 90 minute dance set? Good clean fun.

Another 891Z fan. I love mine. Smooth and sweet and a joy to play.

Trust your ears, don't concern yourself with the silly slights of those for whom only a Bach or King will do. Bach and King do have a strong emotional appeal to some based on their use in a bygone era, but [deleted].

Good enough for Andy Martin, good enough for you

If you like it then buy it,great horns with fantastic slides

I love mine. It’s my favorite horn. I play in a New Orleans-style front line and it’s perfect. I play in a ska band and it’s perfect. I’ve played it in combos and it’s perfect. Great at Baroque arias and divisions too, btw.

I use the NY pipe and one of Pickett’s “Wycliffe Master” mouthpieces. I cannot imagine a more responsive trombone. This combo beats every custom combination I’ve ever played.

I just got mine and I really enjoy it. It works great in community band as well as church solos.

When I tried out the lead pipes, everyone loved the LA pipe in a small room. However, as soon as I got into a larger space, all votes went to the New York Pipe.

I am having a little trouble with 7th position. It seems to be way out on the stockings. Other than that, everything works great.

chouston3 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:24 pm I just got mine and I really enjoy it. It works great in community band as well as church solos.

When I tried out the lead pipes, everyone loved the LA pipe in a small room. However, as soon as I got into a larger space, all votes went to the New York Pipe.

I am having a little trouble with 7th position. It seems to be way out on the stockings. Other than that, everything works great.

It may be my characteristics of playing, but all Yamahas I've had, have had their 7th positions far out on the slide, and the slotting slightly unstable and wobbly in low to medium dynamics. It takes some getting used to, but once you know about it it's an easy adjustment.

chouston3 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:24 pm I just got mine and I really enjoy it. It works great in community band as well as church solos.

When I tried out the lead pipes, everyone loved the LA pipe in a small room. However, as soon as I got into a larger space, all votes went to the New York Pipe.

I am having a little trouble with 7th position. It seems to be way out on the stockings. Other than that, everything works great.

All my trombones are like that. It's because I tune my trombone sharp and have short arms. Who needs seventh position when you play lead trombone? That saying is true most of the time. I think it was Urbie Green who said it, or it was me (just said it ) I can reach the E on seventh but the B which needs a bit of adjustment anyway often needs a little bend too to be in tune, or I have to streach all I got. Not possible if it is fast. If I need I use a trigger-horn. If I have no time I fake it.

/Tom

I bought an 891ZD almost a year ago now and it has become my main tenor trombone for most work. The break-in period was real: coming from Bachs and Conn 6Hs, this horn is way different. I think the first three months I was in a phase I felt with King 3Bs when I played them early in my career: some days it was great, other days it sucked. I truly thought about selling the horn and shifting gears, but I was traveling for work almost every week and the flat case was too convenient, so I stuck with it.

After six months, I switched my mouthpieces around and settled on Greg Black which greatly helped. The intonation was wonky with some of my other shorter shank mouthpieces. I feel like GB and Yamaha pairs well if you’re after a deep rich tone without going too large in bore.

Over time I have slowly fallen in love with the horn. It works exactly as it should, every day, even if I take a day or two off. It is so rich in harmonics (more than my vintage Bach 8 which is a color monster), beautiful sound character through the entire range of the trombone, slotting is predictable when learned. I AB’s the normal 891 bell with the ZD, and I honestly feel like the screw collar improves the sound enough to make a difference. There is a richness (ala the Yamaha 895EN) and extra punch that makes the horn “less boring”.

This horn also translates so well in the studio on recording projects. Maybe for some things it sounds a little “too modern” but it’s easy to manipulate in the mix to get what you need. Rather have too much sound and subtract than not enough and be unable to add.

And it can project like no other horn I’ve tried. I don’t have to play as hard to be heard and when I do crank it outdoors NOLA style it keeps going. I sat in on a show with a four piece horn section and there wasn’t really a mic I could comfortably jump on, so I just blasted without one. My friend in the audience (a pro saxophonist) asked me after “how did you play so loud off mic? You mixed perfectly with the other horns on mic! Wow”

I still have a Bach 36, Bach 8, and Conn 6H and there are times where I prefer the sound of those instruments. But the 891ZD is often selected in blind recording tests I send to colleagues with all of these instruments asking for advice.

I do think it doesn’t quite get the sizzle some players are after, the sound stays round and doesn’t break up, but I recommend giving one a try if you are looking for a versatile .508, especially if you’re coming from say a Bach LT16M. There will be some adjustment, but it’s worth it. I feel that this horn has made me a better trombonist.

Never thought there would come a day when I’d recommend a Yamaha trombone over an American model, but here we are! lol

I played on a 697Z for a number of years. It covered lead in a big band very well. It did better with a newer Bach 11C and a bit better than that with a Mount Vernon 11C. Then I got a 1970s King 2B and replacement 1960s King 2B after a tragic incident with a car tire. Both Kings have a very strident 3rd position Bb and retain great color right down to pianissimo. After Paul Whiteman, jazz was somewhat based on a jungle music character that it may have only previously flirted with. For jazz rock or rock, both King 2Bs know how to get a funk sound. For books with lots of Count Basie, Duke Ellington, jazz rock, or rock, the King 2B captured the sound, whether on purpose or by serendipity.

I bought an 891Z in early May. I’ve played in public with it a couple times, once soloing on a backing track for a school coffee house and then last night at a big band rehearsal. I had fun both times and felt like the horn did what I wanted it to. It doesn’t seem like a boring horn for me.

At big band I only had to play one real lead chart that went up to a C and hung around A and B a lot. Very easy up there and blended well with the mirrored voicing in the lead trumpet. Another chart had a trad solo and the horn got dirty and boisterous for me. It really strutted. A later ballad felt smooth as silk.

My sound will get a little crazy without guardrails. I like knowing that unless I really mean for it to happen the horn will not display anything too out on the edge. There are many horns for many players. I tried a few other brands and just found the Yamaha does what I need it to do. It’s consistent and reliable, even if I am not necessarily always so.

The more I play my 891Z, the more I like it. And I liked it a lot when I first got it.