78h leadpipe

[hyperbolica]

I've heard great things about some Brass Ark 78h pipes. But I'd like to hear from 78h owners out there. What pipe livened up your 78h? Mine is just a tiny bit dead or flat. I'd like to liven it up across the range. Maybe brighten is the better word. I think I can dial it in with mouthpiece selection, but not from where it is now. What pipes should I be looking at?

[Jimkinkella]

I have a Brassark 32h seamed copper pipe in my 79h.
Very happy with it.
I wouldn't say that it's brighter, but it is more responsive and comfortable.
I suppose that could be changed up with different mouthpieces, but that wasn't my goal with that particular horn.
It would definitely help part of your "flat" feeling, I know exactly what you mean.
Hit Noah / Brad up, they might give you a trial demo period, or if you're in LA you can check out mine.
Good luck in your search
Jim

[Thrawn22]

Jim has some killer brassark pipes. I've had luck using stock Bach pipes so far. I haven't had the need to change out my 78H.

[hyperbolica]

Jim,
The top tube of a 32h is small, like 500 or so. Did you have the end of the pipe swaged to make it fit 522?

I've heard a lot of good things about that pipe, but assumed it wouldn't fit the 78h.

What about M/K or Shires, how do they compare?

[hornbuilder]

M/K make a fabulous Conn style pipe for .52X slides.

[MrHCinDE]

Another vote for the M/K Conn-style pipe here. I use it in sterling silver with an SL2525 slide and 8h and find it to be lively without breaking up too easily. There are differences between my setup and a 78h but thought it it may be of interest anyway.

If I were in the US I‘d have probably tried it in a couple of metals and kept my favourite but as it is I can‘t fault the silver one.

I also like a Corp. 36 pipe with the same setup but if anything it tends towards a less lively sound so probably less interesting for you.

What about the stock Conn pipes that are designed for the SL2525? They‘re not that expensive and could be worth a go. In the end I preferred the M/K and Bach pipes but that was personal preference rather than the Conn pipes being particularly ‚bad‘.

[DaveAshley]

If anyone's interested, I have a press-fit brass Brad Close 78L I'm not using.

From his website: "From a vintage special order long Elkhart 78H pipe, good for players looking for more slotting and resistance." Listed as a .525 pipe, not .522.

$100 shipped to CONUS.

[hyperbolica]

...
What about the stock Conn pipes that are designed for the SL2525? They‘re not that expensive and could be worth a go. In the end I preferred the M/K and Bach pipes but that was personal preference rather than the Conn pipes being particularly ‚bad‘.

I've got a sl2525, a 78h and a 79h. Kind of a 525/522 junkie. I've got a Conn T in the sl2525 and it's a great $30 pipe. Maybe I should just get another and grind it down for the 78h.

Or...since I have a 79h and the slides are close, I've always wondered about putting a 508 tube on top...

[MrHCinDE]

For $30 you can‘t go far wrong!

Out of interest what do you like about the T pipe? How do you think it compares with the H?

More generally I‘d be interested to hear about how the 79h and SL2525 (presumably with 8h/88h bell? Or maybe something custom?) compare with the 78h in terms of brightness/liveliness whatever that means. Could it be that you already have the sound you‘re looking for with another setup and you‘re aiming to modify your 78h to try and replicate it? I know I‘ve ended up on that journey a couple of times. Does the 79h slide work with the 78h?

[Matt K]

...
What about the stock Conn pipes that are designed for the SL2525? They‘re not that expensive and could be worth a go. In the end I preferred the M/K and Bach pipes but that was personal preference rather than the Conn pipes being particularly ‚bad‘.

I've got a sl2525, a 78h and a 79h. Kind of a 525/522 junkie. I've got a Conn T in the sl2525 and it's a great $30 pipe. Maybe I should just get another and grind it down for the 78h.

Or...since I have a 79h and the slides are close, I've always wondered about putting a 508 tube on top...

Oh man, I was planning on doing some other stuff with my setup which is similar on paper to yours, but now that you phrase it like that, that is an awesome idea. King 3B upper inner/outer would probably be the right length or really close. Get the 32H replica from Brassark in a 508 size and it would still probably be really characteristic of a Conn, but a really compact smaller medium bore type.

BTW, another great Conn pipe is the 52H. Or at least the one I have is awesome. I think a forum member sold theirs when they had it removed and I got it for a good price, but new they're still only like $40 or something. I had a set of Shires threads added to mine and it's my go-to 525/547 pipe for small shank mouthpieces. I use it on a "Conn" like Shires, so my guess is its probably closed to the "open" side of the spectrum but it still has a bit of zing to it. Worked really well for me in the Wessex alto I have too.

[hyperbolica]

For $30 you can‘t go far wrong!

Out of interest what do you like about the T pipe? How do you think it compares with the H?

More generally I‘d be interested to hear about how the 79h and SL2525 (presumably with 8h/88h bell? Or maybe something custom?) compare with the 78h in terms of brightness/liveliness whatever that means. Could it be that you already have the sound you‘re looking for with another setup and you‘re aiming to modify your 78h to try and replicate it? I know I‘ve ended up on that journey a couple of times. Does the 79h slide work with the 78h?

It has been a few years since I auditioned the T vs H, but I think the H was short, and had all the usual shortcomings of short pipes compared to longer ones. I don't know specifically what traits are due to the T, but the whole 88h/525 slide is rather light and lively. Pretty much what I want from the 78h, except I'm hoping I can get a slightly more compact sound with the 78 (think chamber vs orchestral sound). My 79h is pretty dark compared to the 88 and 78, but it has the nice compact sound. Great chamber horn, not so great for jazz, it's a bit dark for that. My 88h, a really nice Elkhart example, is very resonant, but my 78h (a recent acquisition) is not. The 78 would probably be a great horn if I weren't so spoiled with a fantastic 88. I'm always very hopeful about 78h's and this is the 3rd time now I've been somewhat disappointed. I'm sure there's got to be some small tweak that will liven it up. My 79h has been the instrument I play everything on, although my recent recording experience says I should probably be playing my 88h/525.

Actually, my 525 slide is not technically an sl2525. It's a custom slide made from all Conn parts, I think. The main difference appears to be that it doesn't have oversleeves, and the sl2525 part number isn't stamped on it anywhere. I got it with another bell, sold the bell (custom 8" heavy 8h) and kept the slide.

The 78h and 79h slides are very similar. There are at least 2 differences that I've noticed. First, the top cork barrel on the 79 is a little shorter. And second, the top brace of the 79 is further down the slide (further away from the tenon) because the hand position with the trigger vs no trigger is further down the slide. If you use a 78h slide with a 79h, it feels like a child's horn. If you use a 79h slide with a 78h, it feels like a giant's grip.

[Jimkinkella]

Jim,
The top tube of a 32h is small, like 500 or so. Did you have the end of the pipe swaged to make it fit 522?

I've heard a lot of good things about that pipe, but assumed it wouldn't fit the 78h.

What about M/K or Shires, how do they compare?

Brad makes the 32h replica for a couple of different bore sizes.
My impression is that the profile and length are the same, but the taper at the bottom expands faster / farther for the larger tubes, but you'd have to check with him on details.
Haven't tried the M/K, hadn't found a Shires leadpipe that I've really liked.

I use a T leadpipe in my 88h 2547 slide, the 32h pipe is definitely tighter, the two horns don't even feel related.

[brassmedic]

My 78 long pipe would be good if you're trying to make the sound brighter or livelier. I don't recall making a .522 32H, but maybe I did as a custom order. Normally the orders I get for the 32 pipe is .500 bore like the original, or expanded slightly to .508.

[MrHCinDE]

Thanks Hyperbolica for the write up about the 78h/79h/SL2525.

That 78 long pipe from brassmedic sounds interesting.

I can‘t help thinking that replacing the upper tube in one of the 78h/79h would be a bit of a shame, at least until all other options are exhausted and especially with what you mention about the ergonomics of the two horns. One of the 78h/79h would basically end up without a comfortable 525 slide with the unknown quantity of the 508/525 in its place. As a Conn fan that makes me cry a little inside.

If you do end up trying the 78 long pipe and also pop it into your custom SL2525/88h I‘d be keen to hear how it compares with the Conn T pipe (asking for a friend…honest).

[hyperbolica]

I can‘t help thinking that replacing the upper tube in one of the 78h/79h would be a bit of a shame...

Yeah, I would only do that if the slide were already munched and had to be fixed anyway. the 79h has new 525 tubes, and the 78h slide is in pretty good shape, so I'm not going to mess with it. That's not so say I might not go looking for a trashed 78/9h slide and have my way with it...

And for now, I've decided that a small mouthpiece (DE C cup) is giving me a better sound. I would normally play an E or maybe D cup on a 78/9h. The C gives it some zing.

[Jimkinkella]

Hi guys,

I have to apologize, I was out on the road and had remembered Brad's 32h pipe (I do have those in .500 and .508) but I'd just gotten home and checked, and it's a Brassark 78S seamed copper pipe that I have in there.
And it is pretty great, so much better than the original.

As some had mentioned before, it's a great chamber music horn, but I wouldn't use it in a big band.

Do I have too many parts and pieces if I can't remember them all?

[Matt K]

Do I have too many parts and pieces if I can't remember them all?

I literally looked around for like 20 minutes the other day for a slide I sold 5 years ago. So I think, on the contrary, it's more of a problem if you can't remember not having them!

[brassmedic]

Do I have too many parts and pieces if I can't remember them all?

Nope. No such thing as too many.

[Stustang05]

Hello! I just purchased a 1959 Conn 78H from Doug Bert at Brass Exchange. I love the horn and he and his folks did great work to ensure this is an awesome horn. I’d like to refresh the leadpipe and asking to see if you have any recommendations, etc.

[Trav1s]

How did I miss this thread?

So I know a guy who sent a 78H slide to get the pipe pulled*... and ended up finding another one after the pull went terribly wrong. That guy was not aware of previous repairs made to the slide and the respected tech found a mess.

*Remember there is always risk in damaging the slide when pulling the pipe.

I have the following pipe that I will experiment after the slide comes home
- mid 50's 78H
- mid 60's 78h
- Close 78H L I picked up used

I'm eyeing the MK .525 pipe self

[Thrawn22]

How did I miss this thread?

So I know a guy who sent a 78H slide to get the pipe pulled*... and ended up finding another one after the pull went terribly wrong. That guy was not aware of previous repairs made to the slide and the respected tech found a mess.

*Remember there is always risk in damaging the slide when pulling the pipe.

I have the following pipe that I will experiment after the slide comes home
- mid 50's 78H
- mid 60's 78h
- Close 78H L I picked up used

I'm eyeing the MK .525 pipe self

I'm curious as well. I can't wait to hear your results.

[hornbuilder]

Yes, successfully removing a leadpipe from a 50-60 year old horn is never guaranteed, even for the best techs.

[Stustang05]

Thank you for the feedback! I think I’ll leave this alone. It’s way to risky to mess with wrecking a slide I can’t replace.