TromboneChat

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:54 pm ...

Full disclosure: I've actually tried a Callet trombone mouthpiece - a Magnum 7B.
(Heavy weight. Long, slightly oversize shank. Like a deep cup, large-throat Bach 6¾ or Bach 7?)
It didn't do anything for me.

JCBone wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:31 pm For someone who claims to have played with the MET. There is no way he was playing the Arbans in the end to the best of his ability. A pro, even with unideal equipment, should still be able sound musical.

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:00 am There was a thread here on TC a while ago about this fellow. IIRC, consensus here (which is, no doubt, the final word on every major topic of discussion you’d care to find) was that his teaching and playing were... unorthodox. To me, his sound is very bright and unpleasant.

Having said that, I’ve been reading a little about this so-called “tongue controlled embouchure.” Apparently, there is some indication that this was practiced in the Baroque trumpet world. I’d have to dig out my old notes and search my browser history...

"The vast majority of brass teaching is just the perpetuation of anecdotes, trepidation and mythology..."

"The terms Einsetzen and Ansetzen are words that originate in ancient french horn technique..."

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:00 am Having said that, I’ve been reading a little about this so-called “tongue controlled embouchure.” Apparently, there is some indication that this was practiced in the Baroque trumpet world. I’d have to dig out my old notes and search my browser history...

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:00 pm

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:00 am Having said that, I’ve been reading a little about this so-called “tongue controlled embouchure.” Apparently, there is some indication that this was practiced in the Baroque trumpet world. I’d have to dig out my old notes and search my browser history...

I don't think so. Bahb Civiletti, a NYC-based baroque trumpet player and former student of Callet, is an advocate of "tongue-controlled embouchure". I assume there are other baroque trumpet players today that use that technique, but I'm not aware that it's any more the norm as it is in the modern trumpet scene. And I don't know of any evidence supporting that it was historically the dominant technique in the baroque era. On the contrary, as far as I can tell TCE appears to be incompatible with the tonguing styles in both Fantini (1638) and Altenburg (1795), the two trumpet method writers that bookend the baroque period. (try saying "tiritiriton" with you tongue touching your lips. Good luck!)

His claim in terms of it being historical is basically: the trumpet guild secrets are lost forever so we'll never no for sure, but that's how I am able to play those hard Bach, L Mozart, Reutter and M Haydn parts, and I'm so good at it, therefore that *must* be what they were doing back then too...This of course is not based on historical sources, ignores that other players can actually play baroque trumpet really well without using TCE, and also ignores the fact that he doesn't actually play the instrument those parts were written for (i.e. he plays baroque trumpet with holes, not natural trumpet, that makes an enormous difference in terms of embouchure).

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:07 pm My initial attempt to play with my tongue on my lower lip produces almost no usable sound.

Do we know of any trombone players who subscribe to this technique?