TromboneChat

Hi Folks,

Just wondering if anyone has tried one of these and id so how did you like it?

many thanks

I put one on my Conn 62H and have NO plans to remove it.   I was amazed at how much difference it made in focusing the sound of the horn and how "slotting" improved.  Like you, I was very skeptical about how much difference it would make, but I could not be happier with the investment.  I tried it on my King 8B and got almost as good a result, but on my King Duo Gravis there was virtually no improvement.  Go figure ?    In my experience,it's a lot of "Bang For The Buck" ! Cheers !!  Bob

Well the brace arrived yesterday.  Not sure of any improvement as yet. Perhaps I'm not yet good enough to notice the difference. I do tend to switch horns and MPs all the time so I'm likely pretty messed up.  I'll leave more feedback after a bit of time with the brace.  I'll try to leave it on just one horn.

These kinds of things make a difference that can be felt when you're putting a lot of sound/air/etc through the horn. Not so much of an effect if you dont play that way.

What exactly is the slide brace, pictures?

It's tricky to post pics here , if you go to M&K Drawings website you will see it under trombone accessories

not tricky

Thanks! So is this an extra accessory? How does it work exactly, and how much was it?

It goes between the ferrules on the slide bow.  Makes it look sorta like a pBone.

Does it work?  You see how many of us are using them...

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Dec 14, 2017, 02:03PM

not tricky

OK not tricky

Quote from: edD on Dec 14, 2017, 02:04PMThanks! So is this an extra accessory? How does it work exactly, and how much was it?

It will change which sound frequencies are attenuated by the curve in the slide bow which will change the sound,  Ralph Sauer used one, whether it's a positive/negative even noticeable change to your playing you won't know until you try it

Tried one out on my Greenhoe/Bach/Gopp for a few days. The horn slots amazingly but comes at a cost of overtones, for me it reduces the overtones spectrum and you lose a lot of the upper rich overtones. I feel I have much less control therefore of the sound I am creating.
My colleagues didn't like the tone change either. They tried the brace out on their Edwards T350 and Bach 42BO themselves and found similar results... Makes the horn play amazingly easily and free but at a cost of tone.
I packed the brace back in my case. Maybe it will be something to clme back to in the future but for the pit work/section sound we have.

Even though I've already expressed my preference for using the "Sauer Brace", and feel that it is an obvious improvement at all dynamic levels, I do understand the comments regarding the loss of "upper rich overtones".    However ---- I'm a person who thinks that many of those "upper rich overtones" are spurious resonances that have nothing to do with the actual pitch that the player is attempting to produce.  On many occasions I have attempted to play even so simple an interval as an octave with instruments of a particular manufacturer, and was never able to have the interval "settle" in a true unison because of those "upper rich overtones".  Just today, I was listening to the Metropolitan Opera broadcast and heard a soprano with what many would describe as a rich, full bodied voice.  In truth, she was producing so much "hash" surrounding her voice that I would defy anyone listening to the performance to notate what she was singing even though it was a familiar tune of Bellini !  The strength of these overtones varied so much that a listener's ear would be drawn from one overtone to another without any idea of whether or not it was intended to be one of the notes that comprised the melodic line !   An example of a perfectly pitch-aligned voice would be that of the late Metropolitan Opera bass-baritone Leonard Warren, the recordings of whom I used to play for my students to demonstrate a perfect coherence of pitch within a single tone.  To be sure, I have experienced players of these instruments of a particular manufacturer who were able to align all the elements of a pitch-centered tone perfectly, but it is a rarity.  I'm just sayin'-------- !   Cheers !!

Quote from: Dombat on Dec 16, 2017, 02:17PM
Tried one out on my Greenhoe/Bach/Gopp for a few days. The horn slots amazingly but comes at a cost of overtones, for me it reduces the overtones spectrum and you lose a lot of the upper rich overtones. I feel I have much less control therefore of the sound I am creating.


This sounds very much like the result when using the Denis Wick Booster.

Quote from: Terraplane8Bob on Dec 16, 2017, 07:35PMEven though I've already expressed my preference for using the "Sauer Brace", and feel that it is an obvious improvement at all dynamic levels, I do understand the comments regarding the loss of "upper rich overtones".    However ---- I'm a person who thinks that many of those "upper rich overtones" are spurious resonances that have nothing to do with the actual pitch that the player is attempting to produce.  On many occasions I have attempted to play even so simple an interval as an octave with instruments of a particular manufacturer, and was never able to have the interval "settle" in a true unison because of those "upper rich overtones".  Just today, I was listening to the Metropolitan Opera broadcast and heard a soprano with what many would describe as a rich, full bodied voice.  In truth, she was producing so much "hash" surrounding her voice that I would defy anyone listening to the performance to notate what she was singing even though it was a familiar tune of Bellini !  The strength of these overtones varied so much that a listener's ear would be drawn from one overtone to another without any idea of whether or not it was intended to be one of the notes that comprised the melodic line !   An example of a perfectly pitch-aligned voice would be that of the late Metropolitan Opera bass-baritone Leonard Warren, the recordings of whom I used to play for my students to demonstrate a perfect coherence of pitch within a single tone.  To be sure, I have experienced players of these instruments of a particular manufacturer who were able to align all the elements of a pitch-centered tone perfectly, but it is a rarity.  I'm just sayin'-------- !   Cheers !!

I feel the opposite - overtones are what makes live music exiting. I find many add-ons that are designed to make a horn easier to play (heavy caps, braces etc) come at a loss of the liveliness of the horn. With the brace intonation and slotting were ten times easier but I didn't have the delicacy in my playing that could allow me to change my sound according to the situation - whether blending with the trumpets, trombones, strings, woodwinds or a particular singer.
Of course the loss of pitch and therefore melody for the sake of overtones is nkt ideal but in the case of the trombone to much pitch centre (especially in an orchestral situation) can, I believe, lead to a boring and overpowering sound.
All that said. One must always adapt their tone to the players around them. The brace helps with playing. In my playing situation and sound concept its negatives outweighed the positives but for others it may be the other way around.

Interesting indeed !  Two diametrically opposed assessments of a common problem.  It reminds me of the tale of 10 blind men trying to "explain" an elephant by touching only one part of the beast.  In the case of the "Out of Control Overtones", I think we really agree in general about the richness that they provide to the tonal quality of any musical instrument.  I believe that the missing consideration here is simple.  The overtones must be aligned to the pitch that is being generated instead of just being thrown out there willy-nilly with no definite purpose other than simply being there.  Piano tuners are familiar with "wild" notes that cannot be pulled into tune because the string in question had, at some point in its life, been slightly bent, causing the string to actually vibrate in two segments.  The two segments can never be tuned to the other strings in the group designated to a given pitch.  This is what I meant when I referred to "spurious resonances".  So --- include as many overtones as you wish just so they all are there with a purpose and are aligned to the pitch being generated.  Problem solved !  Cheers !!   Bob

Well some of the feedback is way beyond me.  At this stage in my development, I'll take Free and Easy to play, which does seem to be the case.  As I progress I may get interested in 'overtones'

You may very well not even be able to tell any difference at all if you're saying you are at where you're at. Let us know how it goes.

My instructor has one soldered on his Shires tenor slide.  Out of curiosity, I've got one of these on the way - comes tomorrow.  From what I've read it seems to "make the most difference" on light slides, which is what I've got on my bass. I'll be interested to see if makes any difference.

We'll, I've put a short practice session in with the brace on. Does it make me a better player? No. Does it enhance my tone to the likes of Ben van Dijk or George Roberts? No. But it does seem to make things more stable and slot better.  I started to question if it was just in my head, but I took the brace off and the slots felt loose.  I mean we're talking minor adjustments here, but in my mind with my playing, it seems to be helping.  I'll be keeping it on.

I don't have any large ensemble rehearsals until well into January, so I can't wait to try it out in that venue.

This little $40 gimmick gets a  from me.

The Lindberg resistance balancer does a similar job.

Quote from: tbathras on Dec 20, 2017, 07:11AMMy instructor has one soldered on his Shires tenor slide.  Out of curiosity, I've got one of these on the way - comes tomorrow.  From what I've read it seems to "make the most difference" on light slides, which is what I've got on my bass. I'll be interested to see if makes any difference.

Going back to the D/W booster.  I found that playing though the harmonic series with the slide locked, and the Booster in place, then feeling up and down the outer slide there was a less vibration at the "anti node" points, even on a heavy slide.

With ever lighter instruments, it seems that we are trying to get back to some of the virtues of heavier ones?

Quote from: Pre59 on Dec 22, 2017, 02:03AMWith ever lighter instruments, it seems that we are trying to get back to some of the virtues of heavier ones?

I was thinking about the irony in adding weight to a slide that I liked because it's lightweight.  However, with the mass concentrated at the bow end I seem to like it.  However, it's still lighter than my standard B62 outer, which is 0.6 lbs.  The nickel lightweight slide with the brace clocks in just under that at 0.57 lbs.

I really felt a really noticeable difference on my Bach .525 LT slide. Ditto 88H LT. Didn’t really feel much on regular weight Yamaha slides.

I really felt a really noticeable difference on my Bach .525 LT slide. Ditto 88H LT. Didn’t really feel much on regular weight Yamaha slides.