TromboneChat

There has been a major snowstorm with single digit (Fahrenheit) temperatures in all of Texas (including Houston and San Antonio). This is unusually cold and the electrical system is having problems keeping up with the need for electricity for heaters.

Good luck to all our Texas friends (and any other Members affected by this cold snap). Keep warm (if possible) and be safe.

It's been a long time since the weather has been colder and more severe in Texas than in New Hampshire!

It's pretty freakin cold!!!

Hasn't been this bad ever! But close when the stupid bowl was at Jerry's world about 10 years ago!!

And we have more snow coming!!!

I grew up in Cleveland, but lived in Texas for 20 years before I moved back. I can attest that the drivers (except those who spent time up north) don't know how to drive in the snow, and that problem is compounded by the lack of any snow plows or salt trucks to help clear the roads. They are having it bad, especially with the power outages.

Rare in Texas, but I can't believe it's unheard of. I remember reading about a cold spell in Texas in the 19th century that killed entire herds of cattle.

Edit:

Probably the 1886 blizzard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_1886_blizzard

I've never heard of it called "Jerry's World" before, but the Crowdboys stadium was a good choice for Stupid Bowl -- normally a nice place to visit in February. Real opposite of Green Bay.

North Central US gets that real cold winter. Even worse than New England.

But compared to Texas, we're experiencing Bikini Weather.

Glad you were able to check in, Eric.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:56 am I've never heard of it called "Jerry's World" before, but the Crowdboys stadium was a good choice for Stupid Bowl -- normally a nice place to visit in February. Real opposite of Green Bay.

North Central US gets that real cold winter. Even worse than New England.

But compared to Texas, we're experiencing Bikini Weather.

Glad you were able to check in, Eric.

Thanks Bruce!! We've been VERY fortunate to not have lost power at al during this mess!!
I think it might be because we're close to a wastewater pumping station and also our city Police station.

It really is an awesome stadium, and yes well suited for the spectacle...unless the weather decides to take a dump on us...

Thanks All!!

Cold, Cold, Cold. I am lucky, no power outage or water outages for me. Made a neat little snowman.

I remember playing sousa in the snow in El Paso in... 2010 I think, bowl game Miami vs Notre Dame. Definitely weird to see heavy snow that far south.

Chicago's currently buried in snow and it's delightful, but our infrastructure is better prepared to keep (most of) us warm and safe.

I live in the far southern part of Texas and I have friends who have been without power for two days at least now. It's definitely something unheard of here in my city and I'm lucky to have only lost power for 3 hours yesterday. Hope everyone is staying safe and warm!

This has been the most miserable week of my miserable life in miserable Texas.

The power is briefly on and briefly off now but it was off for two+ days straight. In the middle of Dallas!

No power... no heat!

I really do not want to be in Boston when it is cold, but I really really would not want to be in Texas in the cold even if the heat was on. Almost everything is forced hot air, and those heated spaces always seem chilly, as if the body is radiating heat to the cold walls as fast as possible.

Hopefully anyone down in Texas stays safe. My only experience with Texas winter weather was when I played at the 1999 Cotton Bowl and during one of the practices ice started to form on my slide. Up here in Chicago I've dug my car out about 4 or 5 times now.

euphobone wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:58 pm Cold, Cold, Cold. I am lucky, no power outage or water outages for me. Made a neat little snowman.
house and snow.jpg
snowman.jpg

From here this looks like a nice day of spring

When this sort of thing happens in Switzerland you can do what you did last year because it usually happens every year and you knew you needed the stuff on hand to get through it. That's how it worked in Minnesota where I grew up.

But this spell is unlike anything I've seen in the 35+ years I have been in the Dallas area. Dallas has no snow plows because of the rarity of the need. It would be unworkable to buy and maintain a Chicago-style fleet of snow plows when the heavy snow that falls once every 10-20 years here is almost always gone by the afternoon or the next day at the latest.

They do have trucks to "brine" the streets but that only works in temps near the freezing point and we have been way below that for 4+ days.

It is harder to explain why the electric power plants in TX were being shut down just as the need for power was going up. I am confident our Texas Legislature will conduct a thorough fact-finding investigation, identify the corporate culprits, then bury that report and put out a press release blaming windmills and Antifa.

I am completely unsurprised that people burn their houses down trying to stay warm. The desperation when the temp drops below freezing in your house is enormous. Here are my feet trying to stay warm over a cluster of candles.
. .
That was successful enough that I decided to go big. This is 15 "St. Jude" votive candles per tray. 45 candles at once was enough to raise the room temp from 25° to 50°. With the tray keeping the wax in they would burn for 9 hours like that. But I'm not recommending it.
. .
With no power, no computer, no internet and nothing else to do... I got my horn out. Trying to read music by candle light is nearly hopeless.
.
Even with the water faucets running continuously I still had two branches freeze and split. By dumb luck I had enough parts in my boxes of junk to quickly saw them off, cap them and turn the water back on. I imagine plumbers in Dallas are going to be rich after this event.

Somewhat reminds me of when I lived in Baltimore many years ago. We had a blizzard of 14 inches of snow. Maryland NEVER sees that much snow, even though it gets some during the winter. I had a neighbor from Pittsburgh and between us my kiddie snow shovel that I keep in my car got a lot of use. Again, Baltimore doesn't have a fleet of snow plows just because they rarely need them.

Keep warm and keep safe down there in Dixie!

I don’t see what the problem is. Just head over to Cancun and wait it out on the beach. What’s so difficult?

signed Ted Cruz

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:13 pm I don’t see what the problem is. Just head over to Cancun and wait it out on the beach. What’s so difficult?

signed Ted Cruz

Is that the Chris Christie solution? (New Jersey governor who closed the beaches and vacationed on one)

As someone from Massachusetts (turned Alaska resident ten years ago), I can say that this is not really what a New England winter is like. I remember days every year where I physically could not throw the snow over the cliffs I had made on either side of my driveway shoveling because they were twelve feet high.

But ... as the snow continued falling and I cursed at the gigantic city plow blocking the end of my driveway with yet another wall of snow as it cleared my street, I did have a nice warm house to go back to with hot chocolate and soup, and my city was indeed doing a great job keeping the streets clear. This makes it even less like a New England winter -- the people in texas without power don't have that and I hope they are OK. 0 F is not cold when you have a nice coat and you want to be outside. It's ridiculously cold when you have no power and live in an area that should be warm.

This is an infrastructure and readiness problem, and that's horrible if it's 0 degrees F outside and you have no power in a house designed for nothing lower than 0 C.

I remember laughing at people (I didn't know better at age 23) for sliding all over the road and nearly crashing in NC after a snow fall of 2 inches. We would go drive out in AK with 6 inches of snow over a thick sheet of sheer ice. The snow was what actually made it "safe". My attitude is not the right answer though, because if you never encountered snowy conditions, you won't know how to drive in it and you'll crash, full stop.

I hope the power comes back on soon in Texas, and that this isn't a sign of even worse climate change to come!

It’s amazing to me that the US can land a spacecraft on Mars but that people are freezing to death in Texas.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:22 pm It’s amazing to me that the US can land a spacecraft on Mars but that people are freezing to death in Texas.

This is extremely unusual weather for Texas. It rarely gets very cold for more than a day or two and this freeze has gone on for a week. You don't usually build infrastructure for conditions that are unlikely to happen so a lot of the things common in the North (where it routinely gets very cold) are not compensated for.

It's comparable to having a heat wave with temperatures over 35 C in Europe (and one was going on there when we visited on our honeymoon -- fig trees in London were bearing fruit).

The most lucid explanation I've read so far pinpoints two main causes of the trouble, one easily avoidable, one not-so-much.

It seems quite a few power plants were shut down for scheduled maintenance even after it was known that severely cold weather was on the way.

And then, when cold weather is here, the natural gas in the pipelines is prioritized to satisfy the increased demand for home and business heating, causing natural gas-fired power plants to shut down for lack of adequate fuel.

I was surprised to read that there is no on-site reserve of fuel for natural gas plants as there is for coal plants. They depend on the gas arriving at the right pressure at the right time from a pipeline hundreds or a thousand miles long.

Nat gas makes for nearly half the generation capacity in Texas so any gas supply trouble is a big problem.

My house is 100 years old with no insulation, no double glazed windows and no central heat (anymore). 0°F weather was going to be tough even with power on.

As I understand the Texas power situation, there was insufficient redundancy in the power grid to deal with the emergency loss of some of its generating capacity, caused at least in part by frozen windmills. The lack of redundancy was due to multiple power stations being shut down for repairs.
This emergency situation is the canary in the coal mine.
As we look forward to a new era of environmentally friendly electrical energy production via windmills, solar, etc., we are allowing our fossil fueled electrical infrastructure to deteriorate. We are attempting to satisfy an increasing demand for electricity with very old equipment, and a constant resistance to building new fossil fueled power stations.

Green energy is an environmental necessity to our future, but its full implementation will take time, and it needs to be phased in while assuring that the old system remains capable of reliably meeting an increasing electrical demand. This demand will include a very big elephant in the room called electric vehicles, which are about to add a gigantic load to the electrical grid. The electric power grid is the most important part of our infrastructure, and it needs the full attention of our leaders, who at present think that "infrastructure" means roads and bridges. We can survive with potholes in our roads, but we can't survive with unreliable electricity. Wake up, Washington !!

I suspect some smaller gas lines froze up.

There's always a little moisture with the gas, that's why there's a drip leg at your regulator. If you have a low spot in the underground line water may collect there. It might not cause any problems in warm weather but if that freezes you may have trouble. Yes there's a reason I know this.

Keep an ear open for the power market situation in Texas. Recall how the Enron boys did one on California...

CharlieB wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:43 pm As I understand the Texas power situation, there was insufficient redundancy in the power grid to deal with the emergency loss of some of its generating capacity, caused at least in part by frozen windmills. The lack of redundancy was due to multiple power stations being shut down for repairs.
This emergency situation is the canary in the coal mine.
As we look forward to a new era of environmentally friendly electrical energy production via windmills, solar, etc., we are allowing our fossil fueled electrical infrastructure to deteriorate. We are attempting to satisfy an increasing demand for electricity with very old equipment, and a constant resistance to building new fossil fueled power stations.
Green energy is an environmental necessity to our future, but its full implementation will take time, and it needs to be phased in while assuring that the old system remains capable of reliably meeting an increasing electrical demand. This demand will include a very big elephant in the room called electric vehicles, which are about to add a gigantic load to the electrical grid. The electric power grid is the most important part of our infrastructure, and it needs the full attention of our leaders, who at present think that "infrastructure" means roads and bridges. We can survive with potholes in our roads, but we can't survive with unreliable electricity. Wake up, Washington !!

Wind provides only about 15% of the electricity in Texas.
The natural gas generating stations shut down because the valves & gauges in the gas distribution system froze.
The entity controlling the power grid, ERCOT, has known for years that the grid needs hardening and upgrading to avoid this kind of calamity, but has chosen not to to keep the stock holders happy.

Fortunately, this kind of winter storm only happens every ten years or so. So common sense, yeah I know!!, should tell us to prepare for the next one!!

Just hoping I won't be living here for the next freeze!

CharlieB wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:43 pm As I understand the Texas power situation, there was insufficient redundancy in the power grid to deal with the emergency loss of some of its generating capacity, caused at least in part by frozen windmills. The lack of redundancy was due to multiple power stations being shut down for repairs.
This emergency situation is the canary in the coal mine.
As we look forward to a new era of environmentally friendly electrical energy production via windmills, solar, etc., we are allowing our fossil fueled electrical infrastructure to deteriorate. We are attempting to satisfy an increasing demand for electricity with very old equipment, and a constant resistance to building new fossil fueled power stations.

Green energy is an environmental necessity to our future, but its full implementation will take time, and it needs to be phased in while assuring that the old system remains capable of reliably meeting an increasing electrical demand. This demand will include a very big elephant in the room called electric vehicles, which are about to add a gigantic load to the electrical grid. The electric power grid is the most important part of our infrastructure, and it needs the full attention of our leaders, who at present think that "infrastructure" means roads and bridges. We can survive with potholes in our roads, but we can't survive with unreliable electricity. Wake up, Washington !!

Per CBS News:

...the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which supplies about 90% of the state with its power, said Tuesday that wind power is responsible for just a fraction of the loss. Of the 45,000 megawatts of power offline during the peak, 30,000 megawatts stemmed from natural gas, while 16,000 megawatts were from wind turbines.

"Of the power shortfall that hit Texas, over 80% was due to problems at coal- and gas-fired plants," PolitiFact reported.

Experts say traditional energy sources, including coal and natural gas, performed below expectations, while wind power actually performed above expectations.

"Main story continues to be the failure of thermal power plants — natural gas, coal, and nuclear plants — which ERCOT counts on to be there when needed. They've failed," Princeton engineering professor Jesse Jenkins tweeted Tuesday. "Those of you who have heard that frozen wind turbines are to blame for this, think again. The extreme demand and thermal power plant outages are the principal cause."

Proponents of renewable energy blasted state officials for blaming the issue on turbines alone. ...

ERCOT is an organization that was created by Texas to establish their power system as an independent entity, in no way connected to the main power grid of the other 47 states. That was done in order for Texas to circumvent Federal power regulations. Electrically speaking, they are an island. So, when the recent emergency arose, neighboring states affected by the storm had the national power grid to fall back on for help. Texas did not. ERCOT had not kept their own infrastructure sufficiently up-to-date to handle the situation on their own. That explains why, of all the states that were hammered by the recent storm, only Texas experienced disaster......... a humanitarian and financial disaster that the the rest of us now must shoulder.

The news coverage that really showed the problem in Texas was on CNN where they showed a 4 lane road running through a town that is half in Texas and half in Arkansas. The Arkansas side of the road was plowed and dry - the Texas side looked like there was 1.5 feet of snow. The Texas energy company dropped the ball and it looks like many municipal services were unprepared. Of course, if the power is off in their homes and pipes are bursting, it might make it difficult for a city to get their plow operators out to work.

Up here in the frozen north, we're used to cold and snow - understandable that this is a tough situation when it's so unusual, but there needed to be better preparations.

Our last cold snap that just ended a couple of days ago had temperatures of -30C with wind chills between -40 and -55C. Lots of snow too. Glad that's over! They are prepared for it here, but it happens for a week or two every year.

Jim Scott

I had suggested that this was New England winter weather because we generally get a week or two of sub-zero (Fahrenheit) temperatures during January or February with mean winter temperatures just below freezing. I know that winter can be much colder, especially in the north-central US and Canadian Prairie provinces.

Right now is not the time to finger point for blame. Right now is the time to extend sympathy and to help where possible.

Maybe having Santa do a special delivery of coal would be welcome

I remember living in Madison Wisconsin while going to engineering school. There was a l.o.n.g. several day period where the high did not break 0 F. (Google tells me it was not as many days as my memory claims, but there were still enough.)

Graduated and moved to Alabama. Sold all my ice fishing gear.

A friend while grew up in NY was telling me all about the tough winter weather in the NE.

The lower 48 states’ worst winter weather is our best weather up here Canada. Texas’ recent cold snap would be considered pretty standard, if not pleasant, up here (Nov to March) in the Great White North. R Maddow was going on about the Texas weather last night and I looked up the weather in Dallas: -3C. Right now, it’s 2C.

The problem is that Texans don't expect this kind of cold weather. I remember laughing inside when my grandparents moved to South Florida and started complaining about how cold it was when the temperature dipped to 50 degrees F (about 10 C).

Freezes are much rarer in the deep South US. As such, things like wood stoves and kerosene heaters are not popular and construction does not anticipate frozen pipes or power blackouts from cold (most power blackouts come from storms with high winds like tornadoes or hurricanes).

I'd bet there is little construction in central Canada anticipating hurricanes (although tornadoes are possible).

Bach5G wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:24 pm The lower 48 states’ worst winter weather is our best weather up here Canada. Texas’ recent cold snap would be considered pretty standard, if not pleasant, up here (Nov to March) in the Great White North.

Congratulations, Canada has colder weather than Texas. You win the cold Olympics. Maybe you can use some of your frosty prize money to help the thousands of people suffering due to circumstances largely beyond their control. I guess they should have just moved to Canada, where it'd be cold enough for the internet to not harass them about freezing to death.

Maybe those Texans should have elected governments that acknowledged the likelihood of cold weather in winter and made sure the power grid could handle a little bit of snow. This was not an unforeseen occurrence. And, it wasn’t all that cold. Louisiana ploughed its side of the road.

I read a story that it cost $9000 to charge a Tesla in Texas a couple of days ago.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:15 pm ...

I read a story that it cost $9000 to charge your Tesla in Texas a couple of days ago.

It's called "free market economy". Supply and demand. Very little supply plus demand yields high prices. That's why I had to wait 3 hours in line and pay twice the usual per gallon (liter) rate for gasoline in 1973.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:15 pm Maybe those Texans should have elected governments that acknowledged the likelihood of cold weather in winter and made sure the power grid could handle a little bit of snow.

Literally millions of Texans voted for other candidates/parties than those currently in power in the last election cycle. Most of them from the same demographics that are more likely to face longer-term issues with electric supply, clean water, adequate housing in the event of an emergency.

Go play your victim-blaming card on Facebook.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:15 pm I read a story that it cost $9000 to charge your Tesla in Texas a couple of days ago.

Did that actually happen or is someone just calculating a "what if"?

IF... that is true it would have to be someone who had chosen a variable rate plan from their electricity provider, and decided to charge their Tesla on one of the few days the rate had peaked.

For them it would have been similarly outrageous to run the cleaning cycle on their electric oven on one of those days.

Most of us have fixed rate/kwh plans. There are about 70 different companies one can choose to buy the electricity from.

Maybe those Texans should have elected governments that acknowledged the likelihood of cold weather in winter and made sure the power grid could handle a little bit of snow.

The snow isn't the problem. It is the astonishing once-in-a-century cold.

mrpillow wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:35 pm
... Go play your victim-blaming card on Facebook.

Jeez Pillow. That’s cold.

Chill.

No thanks. I'll stick to being concerned about friends, family, neighbors, and strangers in my home town who were worried about freezing to death in their own homes or don't have access to drinkable water, food, power, communications, or other basic essentials. Until the situation is resolved across the state for everyone who suffered misfortune at the hands of the governments gross ineptitude, I have no patience for temperature related puns or any other unsympathetic posturing.

When triple-digit temperatures are not uncommon in Summer, and snow in Winter is something you watch on TV year after year, planning for extraordinarily cold weather is not a priority. Should the various layers of government have had more foresight? I think so, but government doesn't always operate in the best interest of the populace, and neither does business when profits take precedence over service. Will Texas be better prepared for the next weather fluke? I hope so.

One government thing that worked well was the weather forecast.

Four days ahead when it was 60° out, the idea of temps dropping to 0°F seemed insane, but the forecast was accurate and gave me time to get some prep done. I got my pipes covered, i got the flashlight batteries and the ready-to-eat food.

But promise of blackouts of just 60 minutes was the big failure. I wasn't ready for two days of no power at all in sub-freezing temps.

Have things improved at all Rob?

According to news reports, the Power Grid has rectified the problems and the brownouts and blackouts should be fixed.

I hope Texans manage to recover with minimal pain. I saw a YouTube posting from a guy who specializes in old computer equipment (much of which I used to use!) and he had an external faucet fail flooding much of his house. He's going to have to remove about a foot and a half (50 cm) of wallboard from all his walls and replace it. Along with all the baseboards and all the flooring. He also lost a lot of furniture made from chipboard.

If the water pressure is restored to the municipal systems there is still a period where you need to boil until they manage to purge all the stuff from the system. But at least there will be electricity to power the kitchens.

May we be seeing light at the end of the tunnel for Texas.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:21 pm Have things improved at all Rob?

For me... yes, the crisis was over yesterday, no more blackouts and reasonable daytime temps. Only minor plumbing damage that I have patched for now.

Today it was warm enough long enough to clear the ice off the roads too.

But there's going to be a ton of people in a serious bind as their pipes thaw out and begin to leak and all their water has to be shut off until... a plumber gets to them, eventually.

And we're probably going to be hearing stories soon of unbelievable electric bills the people on variable pricing plans start getting. They are going to wish they had been blacked out for two days.

I'm sure this was a total nightmare for anyone who was not able-bodied or who had kids in the house.

There's a whole segment of the population that were just getting by financially, physically, emotionally... and then something like this hits and they don't have any slack left.

Here it comes...

His Lights Stayed on During Texas’ Storm. Now He Owes $16,752.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:03 pm Here it comes...

His Lights Stayed on During Texas’ Storm. Now He Owes $16,752.

A proper comment would involve language not allowed on TC... and lots of it!

Texas is a bastion of deregulation. Here is a clear view of the downside. I hope people will remember this as they decry Government regulation.

It's scary that I actually considered one of those variable rate plans last summer when I was picking out a new electric co.

One was just 7 cents/kwh. I looked at that for a long nanosecond but ended up picking one that was about 10 cents fixed.