G-attachment for trombone
- yeodoug
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 9:56 am
G-attachment for trombone
Hello all,
I hope everyone is safe and well as we look forward to better days ahead.
I have a question:
A friend has reached out to me and asked if I had any information about converting a trombone with an F-attachment to a trombone with a G-attachment. I seem to recall, somewhere in a recess of my mind, seeing a discussion about this many years ago. Either an article, a dissertation, or a method book. But I cannot put my finger on this. If anyone recalls this kind of discussion, I'd love to know the source so I can pass on this information.
Many thanks,
-Douglas Yeo
I hope everyone is safe and well as we look forward to better days ahead.
I have a question:
A friend has reached out to me and asked if I had any information about converting a trombone with an F-attachment to a trombone with a G-attachment. I seem to recall, somewhere in a recess of my mind, seeing a discussion about this many years ago. Either an article, a dissertation, or a method book. But I cannot put my finger on this. If anyone recalls this kind of discussion, I'd love to know the source so I can pass on this information.
Many thanks,
-Douglas Yeo
+ + + + +
Douglas Yeo
Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra, 1985-2012 (retired)
www.yeodoug.com
www.thelasttrombone.com
Douglas Yeo
Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra, 1985-2012 (retired)
www.yeodoug.com
www.thelasttrombone.com
- BGuttman
- Posts: 6374
- Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
- Location: Cow Hampshire
Re: G-attachment for trombone
You can convert the two-slide King F-attachment to G by putting one of the slides between the two legs coming directly from the valve. I tried this with a King 4B but had a problem of interference from the main tuning slide brace (it has to be removed).
I don't think you can make a G crook for an open wrap F-attachment because too much tubing is left if you remove the tuning slide.
I believe there was a Holton trombone that had a G attachment instead of F, but I don't remember which model it was. I know it was in the "student" line.
We had a discussion of this on TTF, but I'm not sure if it made the transition here.
I don't think you can make a G crook for an open wrap F-attachment because too much tubing is left if you remove the tuning slide.
I believe there was a Holton trombone that had a G attachment instead of F, but I don't remember which model it was. I know it was in the "student" line.
We had a discussion of this on TTF, but I'm not sure if it made the transition here.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
- boneberg
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:39 pm
- Location: Brandenburg/Berlin
Re: G-attachment for trombone
There was a guy back then in San Diego who had a bunch of King trombones with G-attachments. He also used pretty models to display his horns. It's been a few years though...
- boneberg
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:39 pm
- Location: Brandenburg/Berlin
Re: G-attachment for trombone
It seems like his name was Anthony, Antonio or Tony - something like that. He seemed to make a good case for the G-attachment. Does anyone else remember?
- BGuttman
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- Location: Cow Hampshire
Re: G-attachment for trombone
Anthony Cecena. Don't remember his forum handle but it wasn't his name. I thought he went to Hawaii. He was the first person to suggest the King crook swap.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
- boneberg
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- Location: Brandenburg/Berlin
Re: G-attachment for trombone
I just found a discussion on this at the beginning of June 2020
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- yeodoug
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 9:56 am
Re: G-attachment for trombone
Thanks to everyone for this. Thanks for his name, Bruce, and to boneberg for mentioning that this has been discussed here earlier:
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=15262
I appreciate all of your help.
-Douglas Yeo
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=15262
I appreciate all of your help.
-Douglas Yeo
+ + + + +
Douglas Yeo
Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra, 1985-2012 (retired)
www.yeodoug.com
www.thelasttrombone.com
Douglas Yeo
Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra, 1985-2012 (retired)
www.yeodoug.com
www.thelasttrombone.com
- boneberg
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:39 pm
- Location: Brandenburg/Berlin
Re: G-attachment for trombone
Glad to help out, Doug!yeodoug wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:35 pm Thanks to everyone for this. Thanks for his name, Bruce, and to boneberg for mentioning that this has been discussed here earlier:
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=15262
I appreciate all of your help.
-Douglas Yeo
2Cor5:20
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- Location: 97524
Re: G-attachment for trombone
I guess it would be a permanent conversion judging by those pics. I don’t see how it could be easily converted back. Unless someone made the cut tube into an extendable tube with another tuning slide section...
Michael Conkey
Southern Oregon Trombonist
-Shires Tenor: 7GLW, Rotor, TW25-47, GX TS
-Eastman ETB-634G
-Conn 23H Silver Plate
-Jin Bao Alto
Southern Oregon Trombonist
-Shires Tenor: 7GLW, Rotor, TW25-47, GX TS
-Eastman ETB-634G
-Conn 23H Silver Plate
-Jin Bao Alto
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- Posts: 125
- Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:55 pm
- Location: Sweden
Re: G-attachment for trombone
The cut is just so the short tube is able to fit and make it to G. Now only the end of the long tube will be able to go in, but it will work. Therefore you can just revert it back, with only a section of the outer tuning slide leg missing.
Student in Sweden, usually looking for more trombones
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Re: G-attachment for trombone
Only concern there would be if the stock configuration was able to do an E pull, which is why most have such a long tuning slide.
I suspect we may see more about G-attachments now that we have big name bass trombone players using Bb/F/G/Eb tunings again, mainly for the advantages that the G attachment gives.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
- BGuttman
- Posts: 6374
- Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
- Location: Cow Hampshire
Re: G-attachment for trombone
On the King, the long loop is for your E-pull and the short loop is for tuning. If you use the short loop slide for your G-attachment you should be able to put it in without modification. The long loop slide is left unchanged so you can still use it for the E-pull.tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:31 pmOnly concern there would be if the stock configuration was able to do an E pull, which is why most have such a long tuning slide.
I suspect we may see more about G-attachments now that we have big name bass trombone players using Bb/F/G/Eb tunings again, mainly for the advantages that the G attachment gives.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
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- Location: central Virginia
Re: G-attachment for trombone
On the old trombone forum OTJ, and possibly even on the trombone-l (those days tend to blur a bit for me now) there was extensive discussion of the G attachment. Sometimes the threads referred to it as minor third.
The name I remember as a strong proponent was Alan Charlesworth. I think that BP Leonard was also a fan, but then he got into the constant bore argument and some flame wars ensued.
The following is my opinion. FWIW.
For the average amateur who is not trying to emulate a bass trombone, the tenor trombone with G trigger makes a huge amount of sense to me. It adds some technical facility potential in the middle range where we normally play. It loses the low C, but the average amateur is not convincing on those notes anyway. The F attachment is not that useful in the staff, as so many of the positions are nearly the same. It's sort of like the gearing on the old ten speed bikes. (do they still make those?) Yes there are ten speeds, but several are pretty close. When I rode more often I shifted crossover and it became a very useful six speed.
Above the staff the valve notes start to show some timbre differences. I'm pretty sure some minor changes in construction would solve that; horn, trumpet, euphonium have no issues using valves as high as they can play. But there''s little demand for that, and possibly you would lose the very low range.
If I had it to do over again, in 1971 when I bought my first pro horn I would have bought a .525 with G instead of a .547 with F. Given the usual venues I've played over the years it would have been better value.
The name I remember as a strong proponent was Alan Charlesworth. I think that BP Leonard was also a fan, but then he got into the constant bore argument and some flame wars ensued.
The following is my opinion. FWIW.
For the average amateur who is not trying to emulate a bass trombone, the tenor trombone with G trigger makes a huge amount of sense to me. It adds some technical facility potential in the middle range where we normally play. It loses the low C, but the average amateur is not convincing on those notes anyway. The F attachment is not that useful in the staff, as so many of the positions are nearly the same. It's sort of like the gearing on the old ten speed bikes. (do they still make those?) Yes there are ten speeds, but several are pretty close. When I rode more often I shifted crossover and it became a very useful six speed.
Above the staff the valve notes start to show some timbre differences. I'm pretty sure some minor changes in construction would solve that; horn, trumpet, euphonium have no issues using valves as high as they can play. But there''s little demand for that, and possibly you would lose the very low range.
If I had it to do over again, in 1971 when I bought my first pro horn I would have bought a .525 with G instead of a .547 with F. Given the usual venues I've played over the years it would have been better value.
- spencercarran
- Posts: 640
- Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:02 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: G-attachment for trombone
The open wrap Benges have the strange tuning slide setup that seem like they would accommodate an easy conversion to G. Now I'm wondering they ever made slides like that as an option, or if any King slides would fit.BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:01 pmOn the King, the long loop is for your E-pull and the short loop is for tuning. If you use the short loop slide for your G-attachment you should be able to put it in without modification. The long loop slide is left unchanged so you can still use it for the E-pull.tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:31 pm Only concern there would be if the stock configuration was able to do an E pull, which is why most have such a long tuning slide.
I suspect we may see more about G-attachments now that we have big name bass trombone players using Bb/F/G/Eb tunings again, mainly for the advantages that the G attachment gives.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 6374
- Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
- Location: Cow Hampshire
Re: G-attachment for trombone
The only King slides that look like they might fit the Benge 190F would be the 7B or 8B. The F and Gb slides on my 7B are interchangeable, although I wasn't able to make the thumb Gb (the basic tubing is too long) but I was able to make the two valves F with the tuning slides swapped and both pulled out a bit. I found almost no use for such an arrangement.spencercarran wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:46 amThe open wrap Benges have the strange tuning slide setup that seem like they would accommodate an easy conversion to G. Now I'm wondering they ever made slides like that as an option, or if any King slides would fit.BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:01 pm
On the King, the long loop is for your E-pull and the short loop is for tuning. If you use the short loop slide for your G-attachment you should be able to put it in without modification. The long loop slide is left unchanged so you can still use it for the E-pull.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
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Re: G-attachment for trombone
I'd forgotten about this one:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5435222
Though, a search shows I've posted it before at least once.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5435222
Though, a search shows I've posted it before at least once.
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- Location: Sweden
Re: G-attachment for trombone
That seems to be a similar concept as the Yamaha 350C. Shorter than usual slide but still the ability to play with normal positions. Neat.timothy42b wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:46 pm I'd forgotten about this one:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5435222
Though, a search shows I've posted it before at least once.
Student in Sweden, usually looking for more trombones