TromboneChat

https://www.willson.ch/content/news/das-caidex-ventil

Super interesting. Seeing as Willson's existing ROTAX valve was already one of the smoothest and most well made rotary valves available, it's exciting that they think they've come up with an even better design. I don't suppose anyone's tried one yet, but I'm excited to see how they get used.

Me too! I hope they have the booklet in English, as my German isn't up to schnuffe.

Basically they say the valve has been designed to be even in surface and bore diameter throughout the entire valve and to prevent "pops" when engaging or disengaging the valve.

Rotax were ok... definitely not the best thing out there. There's a reason Edwards dropped them. Interested to see a new valve, though.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:33 pm Rotax were ok... definitely not the best thing out there. There's a reason Edwards dropped them.

What didn't you (or they) like about them? I mean, relative to the other 'improved but normal-ish profile' rotors like the Meinlschmidt OFs or Instrument Innovations...

ithinknot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:49 pm

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:33 pm Rotax were ok... definitely not the best thing out there. There's a reason Edwards dropped them.

What didn't you (or they) like about them? I mean, relative to the other 'improved but normal-ish profile' rotors like the Meinlschmidt OFs or Instrument Innovations...

I won't say they're bad valves, but they are definitely tighter than most of the other modern offerings. Some serious machining/finishing issues pop up as well- I had a friend with a B502 that had to send his back because they were leaking so badly.

I'm not aware of any chronic manufacturing issues with ROTAX valves, I thought Willson had a really good reputation in that regard? If Edwards installed leaky valves on an instrument that went out the door, surely they are just as much to blame for not catching it as the manufacturer of the valves was. As far as Edwards switching it out for the AR-1, I've seen some posts from CG and ZT about how they believe the AR-1 *plays* better, but never anything about manufacturing quality. I suspect the fact that stuff made in Switzerland is usually really expensive also played some role in the switch. I really like the rotax I have for my Rath R3F, I love the way it plays, it's not fussy at all about just the right oil or getting cleaned frequently; and it's super smooth, light, and airtight.

I heard of more leaky Rotax issues, not just my friend's. I think people have the idea that they are perfect in every way... just wanted to get the information out there. I did like how they played on the T-396, but not any of the Raths or B502s I've used.

SwissTbone wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:09 pm Basically they say the valve has been designed to be even in surface and bore diameter throughout the entire valve and to prevent "pops" when engaging or disengaging the valve.

Right. I read the site in English and I also sent an email to them asking if they had a booklet in English. I've had historically bad luck with them emailing me back. Or was that Hagmann?

This looks like a similar idea to the Kanstul CR (controlled resistance) valve, although a very different design. I wonder how it responds...

A valve
Like a kidney, might
Be rejected by one body, one perfect set of parts
And hasten death
Yet again might save another, though less well built.
Then again, the best kidney, in the end
All it does is filter a stream
So you can stream
And focus on more human things

I've played dozens of Rath bass trombone rotax valve sections and other custom made instruments with Rotax valves. Never any issues with leaking-ever.

Looks like another greenhoe clone.

I'm curious about their theory that going to an elliptical cross section through the valve eliminates woofiness.

I never heard back from them about a catalog, though it is the holidays.

paulyg wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:55 pm Looks like another greenhoe clone.

I'm curious about their theory that going to an elliptical cross section through the valve eliminates woofiness.

The original valves aren't woofy.

paulyg wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:55 pm Looks like another greenhoe clone.

I'm curious about their theory that going to an elliptical cross section through the valve eliminates woofiness.

They don't talk about woofyness in the german article about the valve. Maybe a translation error.

SwissTbone wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:14 am

paulyg wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:55 pm Looks like another greenhoe clone.

I'm curious about their theory that going to an elliptical cross section through the valve eliminates woofiness.

They don't talk about woofyness in the german article about the valve. Maybe a translation error.

Yes, I read the translated version of the page.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:35 am A valve
Like a kidney, might
Be rejected by one body, one perfect set of parts
And hasten death
Yet again might save another, though less well built.
Then again, the best kidney, in the end
All it does is filter a stream
So you can stream
And focus on more human things

Cosmic.

I too have never had a problem with any Rotax valve That I have installed or serviced.

The new valve looks interesting, We'll see how it actually works in reality.

I'm placing an order for these this week if anyone wants some.

Let us know how they work!

Amconk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:35 am A valve
Like a kidney, might
Be rejected by one body, one perfect set of parts
And hasten death
Yet again might save another, though less well built.
Then again, the best kidney, in the end
All it does is filter a stream
So you can stream
And focus on more human things

Cosmic.

Think he was channeling DJ?

timothy42b wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:43 am

Amconk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 pm


Cosmic.

Think he was channeling DJ?

I don’t know, this seemed easier to understand that most of DJs posts!!

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:17 am I'm placing an order for these this week if anyone wants some.

How much are they?

tombone21 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:35 am

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:17 am I'm placing an order for these this week if anyone wants some.

How much are they?

They are on the expensive side. I'm not sure Willson would want me tossing their pricing around, but shoot me a message and i will be happy to provide you all the information.

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:52 am

tombone21 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:35 am

How much are they?

They are on the expensive side. I'm not sure Willson would want me tossing their pricing around, but shoot me a message and i will be happy to provide you all the information.

Under or over a grand?

skeletal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:58 pm Under or over a grand?

Well under $1000, but don't forget they still have to be attached to a valve section first!

Are there any updates to the choice between
Rotax vs. Caidex rotary valve. I'm planning to convert Crisafulli's Holton to an open wrap and in the process I will replace the 1950 vintage Holton rotor as well.

patrickosmith wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:43 am Are there any updates to the choice between
Rotax vs. Caidex rotary valve. I'm planning to convert Crisafulli's Holton to an open wrap and in the process I will replace the 1950 vintage Holton rotor as well.

I have a new Caidex rotor for sale that was on a project prototype. Just FYI

I emailed Willson for info on caidex valves as a possible option to replace the valves on my Bach 50B30. They came back with a detailed brochure and pricing.

Per valve

€485 ROTAX valve
€464 CAIDEX valve

BoomtownRath

BoomtownRath wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:34 am I emailed Willson for info on caidex valves as a possible option to replace the valves on my Bach 50B30. They came back with a detailed brochure and pricing.

Per valve

€485 ROTAX valve
€464 CAIDEX valve

BoomtownRath

Keep in mind that shipping will run you $30-50 USD. I REALLY like my Rotax valve installed on my Bach 42 by Eric Edwards.

BoomtownRath wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:34 am I emailed Willson for info on caidex valves as a possible option to replace the valves on my Bach 50B30. They came back with a detailed brochure and pricing.

Per valve

€485 ROTAX valve
€464 CAIDEX valve

BoomtownRath

So the newer version is slightly cheaper.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:33 pm Rotax were ok... definitely not the best thing out there. There's a reason Edwards dropped them. Interested to see a new valve, though.

My understanding was that Edwards dropped them because of pricing but I could be wrong.

I love the Rotax on my 79H. At the time of the swap 10 years ago I had $500-550 in the valve shipped directly to me and the cost of the conversion. My next project if I would find one would be an Elkhart 88H with a Rotax conversion. There are cheaper options but I love the feel, response, and sound I get with it.