TromboneChat

By "linkage", I'm talking about the adjustable part in-between the thumb/finger rest and the rotary valve itself. This makes a separate "click" noise from the valve hitting bumpers. What are some ways to deal with that noise, or are some manufacturers better about their linkage designs and minimizing noise from them?

Tight tolerances with well made parts.

Usually things are making noise because they have worn out to some degree and play has been introduced- sometimes from bad design, sometimes because the user hasn't kept them lubricated.

Some manufacturers are indeed better (or worse). Heavy oil like Hetman 15 can help the Bach style linkages with frequent application. For my very worn Holton ball joint linkages I use tuning slide grease as a space filler and then top off with Hetman 15 as needed.

Replace it with a string linkage. Quieter, adjustable, more reliable.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:11 pm Replace it with a string linkage. Quieter, adjustable, more reliable.

This depends on where the spring is.

O-rings up between the ball joints and the arms itself

What brand is the instrument?

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:32 pm What brand is the instrument?

For me, a Getzen and a Shires. I know it's the linkage because putting my finger on it while activating the valve dampens the sound.

Okay. So the issue could be worn/loose ball joints. How old are the horns?

For the Getzen, you could replace the ball joints with authentic MINIBAL ball joints from Germany (assuming it doesn't have them, they aren't OEM) Make sure the little "Jam Nuts" are tight, too. If they're missing, then they should be replaced.

For the Shires, have you tried a heavy oil on the ball joints? They do need lubrication to keep them quiet and long lasting.

Use generous amounts of lube at every point of motion. Then do it again. And a third time. Seriously, lots of oil - of the right type!

My Bach A47 MLR makes noise when the valve is released and the stop hits the rubber bumper. I'm using the Bach specified bumper (provided by Hickey's), but the rubber becomes firm soon after they are placed on the horn (which contributes to the noise). Any suggestion on replacement bumpers that are softer/quieter and maintain their 'softness?'

I have the same problem with both my shires, sounds like tapping mouthpieces together every time i use either of my valves

Elow wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:26 pm I have the same problem with both my shires, sounds like tapping mouthpieces together every time i use either of my valves

I've had success taking apart the linkage, cleaning it with alcohol and soapy water, then drying it all out. Then put it back together, tighten everything down as much as you can. Then oil. If the sounds don't stop after that, take it to a good tech and have them cut some new bumpers out of softer rubber.

I had a noisy linkage on by 42B. I took it apart and packed the miniball fittings with white lithium grease including coating the screws (which were a bit loose in the holes) and then backed the fittings with little white nylon washers from Lowe's (about 3 cents each). The fix has been perfect for two years.

For older 42s i always just replace the screw part with rubber, it’s silent and works so much better than the metal part

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:44 pm For the Getzen, you could replace the ball joints with authentic MINIBAL ball joints from Germany (assuming it doesn't have them, they aren't OEM) Make sure the little "Jam Nuts" are tight, too. If they're missing, then they should be replaced.

Hi Matthew — regarding the authentic MINIBALs — do you have a recommendation on where a non-tech can purchase them?

Thanks

The minibal linkages have little nylon washers/bushings that eliminate noise and the binding you get with metal-on-metal contact.

IMO that's the only way to go with a mechanical linkage- otherwise a string linkage is superior in every way.

One area not mentioned for noise is the stop arm!!

If it's loose on the rotor spindle, it will clank even with the retaining screw secure!!
A quick, GENTLE squeeze in a vise will secure it nicely.

paulyg wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:40 pm The minibal linkages have little nylon washers/bushings that eliminate noise and the binding you get with metal-on-metal contact.

IMO that's the only way to go with a mechanical linkage - otherwise a string linkage is superior in every way.

I had a shires that was clanky from day one I went and got a big fat rubber o-ring from the hardware store and custom cut some new bumpers. Quieted it right down.

I replaced my rubber bumpers on my Shires with cork. No more noise.

Fridge

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:40 pm O-rings up between the ball joints and the arms itself

My Conn 88HT has a terribly noisy linkage, as Harrison offers, I created some small neoprene washers which fit either side of each ball joint and slathered them in old slide grease and they're now as good as gold!

But still not as quiet as the linkage on my much cheaper Rath R900.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:11 pm Replace it with a string linkage. Quieter, adjustable, more reliable.

I will have my tech Graham Middleton do this to my 50B soon. He’s also going to replace the Kanstul CR valves with Instrument Innovations rotary valves. I’m looking forward to quiet, smooth, dependable action with a short throw. I still remember the old school Conn 71H and my old King 4B I used to play.

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:55 am

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:11 pm Replace it with a string linkage. Quieter, adjustable, more reliable.

I will have my tech Graham Middleton do this to my 50B soon. He’s also going to replace the Kanstul CR valves with Instrument Innovations rotary valves. I’m looking forward to quiet, smooth, dependable action with a short throw. I still remember the old school Conn 71H and my old King 4B I used to play.

I’ll buy those cr valves (:

I've had really good luck with Hetmann Ball Joint - I think it's lubricant No. 15. I'm pretty diligent with keeping everything clean too, I give the valves on both modular horns a bath probably every couple weeks.

KBiggs- unrelated, but- I played in a quartet in Graham in school! We did the Bourgeois quartet together, he played alto. I think he made my Shires slide, too, before I met him.