TromboneChat

https://www.ebay.com/itm/353106252813 Wasn’t this just in the classifieds along with the bell that seller is selling?

Yes it was!

Wow. Yeah i sold him a 4b bell and that 6b/60h bell section for $400 and now he wants 400 for just one part. Good for him i guess. Also, valve compression isn’t the best on that 60h if anyone was interested.

Elow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:36 pm Wow. Yeah i sold him a 4b bell and that 6b/60h bell section for $400 and now he wants 400 for just one part. Good for him i guess. Also, valve compression isn’t the best on that 60h if anyone was interested.

Just curious - did you tell him that before you sold it to him?

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:32 pm

Elow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:36 pm Wow. Yeah i sold him a 4b bell and that 6b/60h bell section for $400 and now he wants 400 for just one part. Good for him i guess. Also, valve compression isn’t the best on that 60h if anyone was interested.

Just curious - did you tell him that before you sold it to him?

It was kinda weird, he didn’t ask any questions about either of the bells so i didn’t say anything. It still pops when you pull the tuning slide out it’s just not “good”. I’d say it’s on par for its age.

Elow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:43 pm

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:32 pm
Just curious - did you tell him that before you sold it to him?

It was kinda weird, he didn’t ask any questions about either of the bells so i didn’t say anything. It still pops when you pull the tuning slide out it’s just not “good”. I’d say it’s on par for its age.

Elow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:43 pm

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:32 pm
Just curious - did you tell him that before you sold it to him?

It was kinda weird, he didn’t ask any questions about either of the bells so i didn’t say anything. It still pops when you pull the tuning slide out it’s just not “good”. I’d say it’s on par for its age.

Well that explains it.

8parktoollover wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:34 pm

Elow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:43 pm

It was kinda weird, he didn’t ask any questions about either of the bells so i didn’t say anything. It still pops when you pull the tuning slide out it’s just not “good”. I’d say it’s on par for its age.

Well that explains it.

Explains what?

Elow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:43 pm

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:32 pm
Just curious - did you tell him that before you sold it to him?

It was kinda weird, he didn’t ask any questions about either of the bells so i didn’t say anything. It still pops when you pull the tuning slide out it’s just not “good”. I’d say it’s on par for its age.

Just to be clear: You sold a valve section to someone when you knew the compression "wasn't the best", but didn't tell him that, but then when he tries to re-sell it, you announce it to everyone?

FWIW, people should be cautious about engaging in business contacts or agreements with minors, including buying and selling goods here. Another up-vote for less anonymity here on the forum. Would be good to know who you are dealing with and how old they are. Particularly in the classified section.

I'm not saying that Elow here has done anything wrong, but based on this thread and several others dealing with solder jobs etc, if I knew they were 16, I would think about doing business with them in a different way than, say, DJ Kennedy.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:58 am

Elow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:43 pm

It was kinda weird, he didn’t ask any questions about either of the bells so i didn’t say anything. It still pops when you pull the tuning slide out it’s just not “good”. I’d say it’s on par for its age.

Just to be clear: You sold a valve section to someone when you knew the compression "wasn't the best", but didn't tell him that, but then when he tries to re-sell it, you announce it to everyone?

I wouldn't pay the price that's being asked, but any interest i had in the valve is now gone.

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:45 am

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:58 am
Just to be clear: You sold a valve section to someone when you knew the compression "wasn't the best", but didn't tell him that, but then when he tries to re-sell it, you announce it to everyone?

I wouldn't pay the price that's being asked, but any interest i had in the valve is now gone.

Sorry, was I asking you?

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:12 am FWIW, people should be cautious about engaging in business contacts or agreements with minors, including buying and selling goods here. Another up-vote for less anonymity here on the forum. Would be good to know who you are dealing with and how old they are. Particularly in the classified section.

I'm not saying that Elow here has done anything wrong, but based on this thread and several others dealing with solder jobs etc, if I knew they were 16, I would think about doing business with them in a different way than, say, DJ Kennedy.

Well there's "wrong" and then there's "doing the right thing." I too would never sell anything to anyone without full disclosure. I just sold a mouthpiece to someone here on this page and I clarified with him that "in case it's not clear in the pictures there is no plating on the rim." He still wanted it so I sold it to him.
So I believe full disclosure on any transaction is very important. Our community is small enough in the scheme of things that the word gets out.

Truth

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:56 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:12 am FWIW, people should be cautious about engaging in business contacts or agreements with minors, including buying and selling goods here. Another up-vote for less anonymity here on the forum. Would be good to know who you are dealing with and how old they are. Particularly in the classified section.

I'm not saying that Elow here has done anything wrong, but based on this thread and several others dealing with solder jobs etc, if I knew they were 16, I would think about doing business with them in a different way than, say, DJ Kennedy.

Well there's "wrong" and then there's "doing the right thing." I too would never sell anything to anyone without full disclosure. I just sold a mouthpiece to someone here on this page and I clarified with him that "in case it's not clear in the pictures there is no plating on the rim." He still wanted it so I sold it to him.
So I believe full disclosure on any transaction is very important. Our community is small enough in the scheme of things that the word gets out.

The reason I feel comfortable buying here boils down to one word.

Trust

Let's hope that continues to be the case.

--Andy in OKC

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:58 am

Elow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:43 pm

It was kinda weird, he didn’t ask any questions about either of the bells so i didn’t say anything. It still pops when you pull the tuning slide out it’s just not “good”. I’d say it’s on par for its age.

Just to be clear: You sold a valve section to someone when you knew the compression "wasn't the best", but didn't tell him that, but then when he tries to re-sell it, you announce it to everyone?

Yes, i did. He paid $400 for two bells and didn’t ask for pictures or anything. My first thought was that he was a tech or something who could fix it up but i guess not. I normally answer any questions before i sell stuff, i even send videos of the angle at which the slide falls. But with this guy, the only question was “could you do $400 shipped?” so i didn’t think much about it. Was it the smartest move? No. But i ask questions before i buy anything, i would think people would do the same.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:52 am

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:45 am

I wouldn't pay the price that's being asked, but any interest i had in the valve is now gone.

Sorry, was I asking you?

No, but since this is a thread on this paticular item i had interest in and whether or not the original seller did anything dubious i figured i would chime in. I didn't realize this topic was causing you anal discomfort and you wanted to make clear your opinion alone mattered. I'll keep that in mind when i feel the urge to comment on topics you've already sounded off on.


To the matter of disclosures. You can either disclose to the point of overestimating a defect or underestimating a defect. If you put in your add to ask questions or for pictures then i think it's up to the potential buyer to do so. The only harm in stating every possible defect is that you may not sell your item or you'll get seriously lowballed, as it looks like happened in this case.

Sometimes sellers may not know the full state of the items they're selling and should probably state that they don't know. An example, without naming names, a friend bought a horn that the seller had talked up as being in great shape, had pictures of said horn, and when the deal was done the horn had more problems than was stated. Now was seller being deceitful? Maybe. But it's more likely given the sellers rep that he just wasn't aware of the issues the horn had.

If the dude who bought the bells at the price stated, then i think that dude still walked away with a deal understanding that there maybe unstated issues and chose to gamble. He obviously is trying to double his money and even based on the description of the bell section it's condition was a crapshoot at best.

Elow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:13 pm

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:58 am
Just to be clear: You sold a valve section to someone when you knew the compression "wasn't the best", but didn't tell him that, but then when he tries to re-sell it, you announce it to everyone?

Yes, i did. He paid $400 for two bells and didn’t ask for pictures or anything. My first thought was that he was a tech or something who could fix it up but i guess not. I normally answer any questions before i sell stuff, i even send videos of the angle at which the slide falls. But with this guy, the only question was “could you do $400 shipped?” so i didn’t think much about it. Was it the smartest move? No. But i ask questions before i buy anything, i would think people would do the same.

So you didn't feel you needed to disclose a problem with the item you were selling because the buyer "didn't ask", but then when he decided to re-sell the same item, then you all of a sudden felt you needed to disclose the problem to everyone? And you don't see anything hypocritical or unethical about that?

That person has every right in the world to sell a piece of equipment he owns, and he has every right to ask whatever price he feels like asking. Whether he bought it yesterday or 20 years ago is irrelevant, and how much he paid for it is irrelevant. If the price is too high, then it won't sell. The market decides that, not you. But you do NOT have the right to try to sabotage his sale because you are jealous.

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:02 pm

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:52 am
Sorry, was I asking you?

No, but since this is a thread on this paticular item i had interest in and whether or not the original seller did anything dubious i figured i would chime in. I didn't realize this topic was causing you anal discomfort and you wanted to make clear your opinion alone mattered. I'll keep that in mind when i feel the urge to comment on topics you've already sounded off on.

I guess you are unfamiliar with the quoting feature, so let me explain it to you. If you quote another forum member and then reply directly beneath, that is considered to be a reply to that member. If you are making a general comment in the thread, then just make your comment.

Next time you feel like you want to "chime in", maybe don't.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:11 pm

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:02 pm

No, but since this is a thread on this paticular item i had interest in and whether or not the original seller did anything dubious i figured i would chime in. I didn't realize this topic was causing you anal discomfort and you wanted to make clear your opinion alone mattered. I'll keep that in mind when i feel the urge to comment on topics you've already sounded off on.

I guess you are unfamiliar with the quoting feature, so let me explain it to you. If you quote another forum member and then reply directly beneath, that is considered to be a reply to that member. If you are making a general comment in the thread, then just make your comment.

Next time you feel like you want to "chime in", maybe don't.

But chimes have such a pleasant sound.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:03 pm

Elow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:13 pm

Yes, i did. He paid $400 for two bells and didn’t ask for pictures or anything. My first thought was that he was a tech or something who could fix it up but i guess not. I normally answer any questions before i sell stuff, i even send videos of the angle at which the slide falls. But with this guy, the only question was “could you do $400 shipped?” so i didn’t think much about it. Was it the smartest move? No. But i ask questions before i buy anything, i would think people would do the same.

So you didn't feel you needed to disclose a problem with the item you were selling because the buyer "didn't ask", but then when he decided to re-sell the same item, then you all of a sudden felt you needed to disclose the problem to everyone? And you don't see anything hypocritical or unethical about that?

That person has every right in the world to sell a piece of equipment he owns, and he has every right to ask whatever price he feels like asking. Whether he bought it yesterday or 20 years ago is irrelevant, and how much he paid for it is irrelevant. If the price is too high, then it won't sell. The market decides that, not you. But you do NOT have the right to try to sabotage his sale because you are jealous.

He lied about the compression being “good” I thought i would let someone know.

Whatever lets you sleep at night...

Elow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:35 pm

brassmedic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:03 pm
So you didn't feel you needed to disclose a problem with the item you were selling because the buyer "didn't ask", but then when he decided to re-sell the same item, then you all of a sudden felt you needed to disclose the problem to everyone? And you don't see anything hypocritical or unethical about that?

That person has every right in the world to sell a piece of equipment he owns, and he has every right to ask whatever price he feels like asking. Whether he bought it yesterday or 20 years ago is irrelevant, and how much he paid for it is irrelevant. If the price is too high, then it won't sell. The market decides that, not you. But you do NOT have the right to try to sabotage his sale because you are jealous.

He lied about the compression being “good” I thought i would let someone know.

Maybe he fixed it.

8parktoollover wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:41 pm

Elow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:35 pm

He lied about the compression being “good” I thought i would let someone know.

Maybe he fixed it.

I would think that he’d get rid of some of the dents too, but who cares. Maybe he fixed it. Also, the only “fix” i know is plating the valve in something like copper or get a new valve. I would think if he were a tech, he would be able to cleanly unsolder something and not just leave the torch in one area until it pops off

If the guy flipping the items has a problem let him be the one to state it. Based on what's apparently going on is the buyer bought the items with the sole purpose in flipping them for profit which is his right and more to the point of the op.

The crusade some other people have undertaken to shame others over listing practices is for another thread. I'm sure we all have forgotten to disclose something on an item being sold or have overstated some item they're selling. Any issues that arise from those mistakes are for the seller/buyer to deal with.

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:16 pm If the guy flipping the items has a problem let him be the one to state it. Based on what's apparently going on is the buyer bought the items with the sole purpose in flipping them for profit which is his right and more to the point of the op.

The crusade some other people have undertaken to shame others over listing practices is for another thread. I'm sure we all have forgotten to disclose something on an item being sold or have overstated some item they're selling. Any issues that arise from those mistakes are for the seller/buyer to deal with.

I just didn’t want anyone to buy it unknowingly of the valve compression. He said it’s “good” instead of “good for it’s age” there’s a big difference and i didn’t want anyone to be mistaken. I didn’t call it out, bass did.

Elow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:22 pm

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:16 pm If the guy flipping the items has a problem let him be the one to state it. Based on what's apparently going on is the buyer bought the items with the sole purpose in flipping them for profit which is his right and more to the point of the op.

The crusade some other people have undertaken to shame others over listing practices is for another thread. I'm sure we all have forgotten to disclose something on an item being sold or have overstated some item they're selling. Any issues that arise from those mistakes are for the seller/buyer to deal with.

I just didn’t want anyone to buy it unknowingly of the valve compression. He said it’s “good” instead of “good for it’s age” there’s a big difference and i didn’t want anyone to be mistaken. I didn’t call it out, bass did.

I.understand what your intent was and don't fault your good intentions. My input which sucked me deeper into this was i saw the item on ebay (before i even saw this thread), had interest in it, and given your additional input i merely mentioned my reconsideration in purchasing the item. There's no reason why this topic should've snowballed into the shitshow it is now.

I don't hold you responsible for anything. If anything this is a learning experience. This site is a support mechanism to help improve us in everything. Not a soapbox for others to point fingerd and hold people in contempt.

I don't think any more benefit can come from more quibbling. I'm going to lock this thread.

Got this message from SlideCrook:

I got word of Elow making a thread about the 60H valve section, but it was locked and I’ve been away at work and haven’t gotten to defend myself.

I bought a 4B bell section from him, and had him throw in the 60H valve with the 2106 bell section. The 4B bell was the point of the sale, and I bought the 2106/60H bell section to use the bell flare/stem for a project, but it didn’t really improve the horn I was working on, so I’m selling both halves of the 2106/60H bell section.

When I purchased the valve, it moved like it hadn’t been lubricated in the past twenty years. Cleaning it, and using actual rotor oil on it, and I am very satisfied with it’s compression.

No, I didn’t ask him any questions when I bought it. ..., and pictures show how he treats his horns, by laying them on his garage floor.

Sorry for the rant, I just feel attacked, and without a voice to defend myself with after the thread was locked.

So nobody got "taken". Buyer didn't need the valve and didn't care about its condition.

I think this closes the topic.