TromboneChat

They seem too good to be true, but steve mead and dunwoody mirvil use them so i imagine they have some use. Anyone here use them? I cant see how adding a small plate can somehow produce Purer overtones Better tuning Easier playing Better slurring Surround projection Extended dynamics (from their website). How does a plate help you slur? If this were a thing, why wouldnt it be part of the actual instrument that was just soldered on? I tried one but was pretty naive and couldnt tell the difference, but i also couldnt tell the different in a 3G and a 6 1/2 AL.

Hahahaha! I couldn't resist!

I imagine it has a bigger effect than most people would think. But it could be a negative effect.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:27 pm

Hahahaha! I couldn't resist!

I imagine it has a bigger effect than most people would think. But it could be a negative effect.

I can finally become carl fontana

Gee. All that stuff and about 6 hours a day of practice for 10 years!

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:37 pm Gee. All that stuff and about 6 hours a day of practice for 10 years!

I hope you mean Fontana. Please, no one try to sound like my video, which is supposed to be a joke.

I think there have already been threads on this, but I do know people who use these. I think it's possible they do something, but I don't see how it's possible for them to do what their website claims they do. It says:

Most wind instruments consist of two or more segments (i.e. mouthpiece/receiver, head joint/body/foot joint etc.) The joints between these segments influence the quality of sound in your instrument. LefreQue offers a revolutionary way to overcome the acoustical impact.

We want to help all wind players to create their best sound. How? LefreQue bridges the frequency-dependent resistance of the joints, so your tone can move freely through the material of the instrument.

O.K., right off the bat, tone does not "move through the material of the instrument". A standing wave is generated within the bore of the instrument, it does not move through the walls of the instrument. I think the tone can be affected by the vibration of the walls, but it is not generated there. Their theory, I guess, is that your tone is somehow interrupted by the connections between the segments of your instrument, and that their product repairs this. I think it's much more likely it is in fact dampening vibrations, not "bridging" them. There are lots of devices that are designed to dampen vibration: weighted valve caps, heavy mouthpiece blanks, etc. Some people claim that counterweights affect the tone, or even the rubber tip at the end of the trombone slide.

Steven Mead has a LefreQue attached to the outside of the upper bow of his euphonium. But that's not a joint; it's in the middle of a solid section of tubing. So obviously their claim that it "bridges joints" can't be true, or at least it's not consistent with what Steven Mead thinks it's doing.

So yeah, it's likely it does something, but not what they claim. Why aren't all instruments built with these? Because not everyone wants the same thing. It's like asking why all instruments aren't built with gold brass bells, or why not all trumpets have rotary valves, or why all trombone players don't use Ralph Sauer slide braces.

I swear to god that the earplug wedged into the harmonic bridge on my bass makes it play better.

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:59 pm I swear to god that the earplug wedged into the harmonic bridge on my bass makes it play better.

I was wondering that those were, I saw the guys at Pershings doing something weird like that that was a different color. It must've been that. That is awesome. I never knew it was actually just to hold your earplugs.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:07 pm

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:59 pm I swear to god that the earplug wedged into the harmonic bridge on my bass makes it play better.

I was wondering that those were, I saw the guys at Pershings doing something weird like that that was a different color. It must've been that. That is awesome. I never knew it was actually just to hold your earplugs.

I've noticed french horns players do it a lot around Los Angeles. It's silly but at least you never forget them!

My wife is a flutist who practices 4-5 hours a day, down from about 8 when she was a student. She resists all gadgetry and has bought exactly one piccolo, one flute, and two headjoints in the 28 years I've known her. I almost had to convince her to make every one of those purchases. She was convinced to try a Lefreque plate, bought one, and uses it every time she plays. It's doing something.

I haven't tried one, in part because I know I'll go down the rabbit hole.

How about the wood in my pocket?

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:27 pm

Hahahaha! I couldn't resist!

I imagine it has a bigger effect than most people would think. But it could be a negative effect.

Hey wait. Where did you get a room that big? Didn’t I see a video in a trailer with aluminum foil around your head?

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:04 am How about the wood in my pocket?

This is a family friendly website, Eric. (sorry, sorry, trying to delete this)

Steve Mead does use them, or at least did for a while, I don't recall seeing them on his new gold horn, but I didn't look closely and don't discuss equipment when I see him, I'm not qualified for that conversation. Did that once, I wasn't helpful. However, he is a lot better than just about anybody else that I have ever known as well. By 'better' I mean ridiculously talented and meticulously prepared. I've known him and listened to him live and in rehearsals for over 25 years and I think I've heard him miss maybe two notes in that time... and that requires the widest definition of 'miss' that you can invent, so maybe he can be a little more finite in his detection of issues that I am.

That said, if I could detect the difference these made in my playing, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't need them to get any job I wanted. (Just to be clear, I am not playing with Steve Mead, I work for the Brass Band of Battle Creek in a variety of support Roles).

Cheers,
Andy

I bought the cheapest one (pair?) a few years ago at the recommendations of Joel Vaisse, a monster of a player. They definitely do something - I threw them (it?) on for a few weeks but never really felt compelled to keep them there. They definitely do something. With all the quarantine time, I gave the things a good try out again, and the only thing I can definitively say is that it adds "weight" to the sound and feel of the instrument. But just a tiny bit. Certain partials felt closer together, and I could put a bit more "power" through the horn without getting resistence. I tried them at all junctures of the instrument and felt it worked best between the mouthpiece and leadpipe.

It felt a bit similar to how lead tape affects the blow. Things hold together, but I'd say a tiny bit of brilliance was lost. I only tried it on my small horn, which has a fairly light bell. I gave it about a week, took them off, and liked how the horn felt without them more.

There make a huge variety of metals, so if you have deep pockets or access to trying them all, maybe you'll find something that works.

I do know amazing woodwind players who swear by them - I don't think it's purely snakeoil, but didn't really do it for me.

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:04 am How about the wood in my pocket?

I swear they used to sell a piece of wood that you could screw things into that you put into your pocket. Supposedly it changed the tone of any instrument. Dumbest thing I've ever seen.

timothy42b wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:06 am
Hey wait. Where did you get a room that big? Didn’t I see a video in a trailer with aluminum foil around your head?

I built this one even deeper underground, below the basement with the tin foil ducts in the other video.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:04 pm

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:04 am How about the wood in my pocket?

I swear they used to sell a piece of wood that you could screw things into that you put into your pocket. Supposedly it changed the tone of any instrument. Dumbest thing I've ever seen.

The wood thing was called a "Pocket Rocket" I could never figure out what it would do to your sound. On the other hand there is a piece of Snake Oil called the Acousti-Coil. Looks like something from the Annals of Improbable Research (AKA Ig-Nobel Prizes)

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:37 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:04 pm

I swear they used to sell a piece of wood that you could screw things into that you put into your pocket. Supposedly it changed the tone of any instrument. Dumbest thing I've ever seen.

The wood thing was called a "Pocket Rocket" I could never figure out what it would do to your sound. On the other hand there is a piece of Snake Oil called the Acousti-Coil. Looks like something from the Annals of Improbable Research (AKA Ig-Nobel Prizes)

Yeah that chunk o' wood was supposed to enhance the resonance of your playing...same with the acousti-coil-a thin piece of plastic rolled up and stuck up yer...tuning slide....

Oh the crap people come up with!!!


Eric

I have tried these and from the performer end of the horn, They do make a difference.
The guys in my trombone quartet listened to me with and without and they noticed a difference and were not told which was which

I'd imagine that there would be very little effect considering that it's placed in a spot were ther aree 3 tuves seperaring the plate and the tube that the air goes thru. I tried one once and I only noticed a very minimal difference.

I work for a store that is a dealer, so I've had the chance to try these extensively and meet with reps for training. These are most popular with our flute customers (perhaps the size and weight of the LeFreque in proportion to instrument makes the difference more apparent).

My take on it is that they definitely make a difference, but I'm not entirely convinced they work in the way the manufacturer says (i.e. harmonic bridging). I can hear a huge difference when most customers try these, and there is an audible difference between different materials. When I tried them on trombone I felt a big difference, and those listening said they could hear one as well. I think adding weight to any part of the instrument is going to make a difference in how it feels and the feedback you get as a player. One way or another you'll play the instrument differently. If they work for you, great. It's not going to fix bad technique.

TuckerWoerner wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:15 pm
If they work for you, great. It's not going to fix bad technique.

I guess the only solution to bad technique is a 20k thein

TuckerWoerner wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:15 pm I work for a store that is a dealer, so I've had the chance to try these extensively and meet with reps for training. These are most popular with our flute customers (perhaps the size and weight of the LeFreque in proportion to instrument makes the difference more apparent).

My take on it is that they definitely make a difference, but I'm not entirely convinced they work in the way the manufacturer says (i.e. harmonic bridging). I can hear a huge difference when most customers try these, and there is an audible difference between different materials. When I tried them on trombone I felt a big difference, and those listening said they could hear one as well. I think adding weight to any part of the instrument is going to make a difference in how it feels and the feedback you get as a player. One way or another you'll play the instrument differently. If they work for you, great. It's not going to fix bad technique.

The one I tried belonged to my teacher and she said that she only used it on small bore. Maybe it works better on lighter instruments.